Cue Ball Control & Positioning

[Jawathan]

Hello Everyone
I am not sure how many people read these pratice posts but i need to work on my cue ball control & positioning as in setting up the ball for the next shot, i would really like a video to show me this ( i like a video over a book) so i can take my game to the next level, what do you guys recommend, what drills do you pratice with to setup your next shot?

[maughanm]

I like Bob Byrnes Volume II.....and Bert Kenester's 60 minute workout is not bad, especially for position...but you have to already know how to use a lot of English. 8) Mike

[Sid]

Kinisters 60 minute work out is the best in my opinion. Just a great practice drill.

[sanj]

i like bob byrne vol5 as a practice video.
i have not seen the kinster videos.

[sanj]

i like bob byrne vol5 as a practice video.
i have not seen the kinster videos.

[GTH]

I don't have Bert Kninsters' 60minute workout , but reliable sources have informed me that it is a great tape for many reasons. Personally I discovered that I often miss position because I didn't have a precise plan in mind when I pulled the trigger. When the error occurs, stop replay the shot over and over until you conquer it. Often the error occurs because the plan(if there was one!) involves too much english, ie. to much chance for error in execution. Attempt to play position by using as little english as possible---it ain't as much fun, but will definitely put you in the winners circle more often.


GTH

[dags_lax]

I will agree with GTH. Although it is not always possible, I try to stay away from english as much as possible. I rely more on getting the correct angle, speed control, cheating the pocket, and using draw or follow to bend the path of the cue ball. When I use english to many strange things (mostly bad) seen to happen. Life is much more predictable striking the cue ball on the vertical axis.

[Lou]

I will agree with GTH. Although it is not always possible, I try to stay away from english as much as possible. I rely more on getting the correct angle, speed control, cheating the pocket, and using draw or follow to bend the path of the cue ball. When I use english to many strange things (mostly bad) seen to happen. Life is much more predictable striking the cue ball on the vertical axis.
Absolutely. Speed control is the first thing that goes out the window when I start using a lot of english.

Mosconi said something to the effect that 90% of shots can and should be executed with a center-ball hit. This made sense to me when I started using The Monk's The Lesson. He teaches you how different stroke dynamics can affect the cue ball. Hitting the cue ball in the center isn't necessarily a stop shot. As an author in a Billiards Digest column once wrote, how you hit the cue ball is more important than where you hit it.

[dmgwalsh]

I'm using some Bert Kinister tapes now. I don't have the 60 minute workout, but others, including Scott Lee said it was good. I got a 4 tape set:the short game, the middle game, the long game, and putting it all together, which is helping me with my position and learning what english works for what I want to accomplish.

[KGeeEd]

I have all of Bert's tapes. They are great. Each tape is like a private one hour lesson. The first tape really gives you a start on improving your ability but it can be frustrating. It was really hard to make the cueball do what he was doing. I then watched Tape #11 Advanced fundamentals. This should be the first tape you watch and practice. This will really give you the stroke and body alignment. After practicing this I could do everything in Tape #1.

If you just buy one tape I think you will not get the concept behind his method of instruction. Each tape lasts one hour. He shows you a drill or concept and then you watch him or one of his students do this for the rest of the tape. He does not edit out any misses or mistakes. He then tells you what was did wrong and how to correct it.

It will cost about $800 for all 54 tapes. There is information in these tapes that I have never seen in any other books or tapes. I have wasted a lot of money on books and tapes that have not done a thing for me. These tapes have did more for my game in 8 weeks than all my years of "useless" practice.

[skor]

for $800 you can get 8 hours of private lessons with a top pro or 16 - 20 hours with a good teacher and you'll get a lot more then you'll get trom watching tapes.
Just my toughts

[sonnic]

you could try buddy halls clock system but once you get the concept the video becomes worthless but could always have a good spot on ebay. oh and its only like 20-30 min.

[audiopro]

For some people maybe. The idea of being able to review a tape over and over may be very beneficial for them.

Remember some people may not take well to such interpersonal teachings. They may be intimidated or un-easy about one on one teaching. They may listen more clearly to some guy blabbing on a tape, who cannot actively judge them.

So there are pros and cons to all types of instruction. The active judging may be helpful because Mr. Pro can quickly see something your doing wrong, and correct it. But what if it just makes ya feel stupid having someone tell you your doing it wrong? What if you could figure it out yourself by watching someone show you the proper way?

Does it make you close minded to not let someone actively help? Maybe.. But the same would go for not giving video a chance too.

[sonnic]

COST...

[skor]

audiopro,
I have the byrne videos and I think they are quite good, but not good enough. there is only so much you came get from watching tapes.
can you become a black belt from watching tapes or bruce lee movies ? - no you can't.
can you become a very good player from watching tapes ? - no you can't.
these tapes are good for beginers who need to know that there are thing like tangent line and what happen and why when you use spin.

[CJK]

Speaking of that, does anyone know a good teacher in the Cleveland/Pittsburgh/Buffalo area? I'd like to pick up some lessons some time, but the only place locally that's a decent pool hall couldn't give me any information.

[dags_lax]

I've got to agree with skor. If you are really serious about improving your game, and can afford it, a professional pool instructor is the best way to go.

Check out this link or do some searches in the forum for mor thoughts on professional instruction.http://www.seyberts.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1010

[audiopro]

I of course agree that you likely could not learn everything from watching tapes. You would absolutely have to do some actual playing to really become any better.

It is the combination of being shown how to do something, and doing it (properly) that makes you good at something. Take your origins of martial arts. Many styles were molded by how animals fight. We would see how they fight, and copy them by practicing and fighing.

You obviously must get hands on to get good at something. I just in short dont want to totally discount the watching of videos as a learning tool. You CAN become a very good player by watching tapes AND physically practicing. That's all..

[parrothead]

You CAN become a very good player by watching tapes AND physically practicing. That's all..

I totally agree. My game improved a great deal by watching 9-ball on espn2. You watch how great players do things and try to emulate it, it will do a lot to your game just doing that. I have no experience with training videos for pool. Personally I buy books because I can get them easily. I currently own all the Monk books, a book called The Pool Players Edge, and a Willie Mosconi book I think that is called Pocket Billiards. They all have some great information, and between them they present several different styles and ways of accomplishing things. Between the books and watching pros, and practicing a few hours a week I went from a really poor A3 player to 13th ranked player in our A1 league in a little over a year.

[KGeeEd]

for $800 you can get 8 hours of private lessons with a top pro or 16 - 20 hours with a good teacher and you'll get a lot more then you'll get trom watching tapes.
Just my toughts


Agreed tapes, and books with private lessons would be the best of both worlds. Education is nothing more that reading a book and having an instructor that will supplement that book and makes sure that you do the lessons. The teacher judges your progress and can vouch that you have paid your dues by sitting in the classroom and reading the book. You can now move onto the next class.

Education is experience and experience comes from mistakes. If you use a book or tapes you can eliminate some of the mistakes.

The original question was about video tapes. It was not asking about private lessons. A few other posters mentioned Bert's tapes. I have these tapes and was giving my experience on how they have helped me. I also wanted to point out that if you pick and choose just a few of Kinisters tapes you will miss out on what he is trying to do. For example one tape is nothing but Bert shooting a couple of speed drills for one hour. Now if I had bought just this one tape for $29.00 plus another $5 for S & H I would have felt ripped off, but by having the whole set I know what he is trying to accomphlish. He comes out with 5 new tapes every year and they are usually part of continuous set. Some tapes do stand alone but then most are continuations. If you are interested in buying them deal with Bert directly and buy more than one to get a quantity discount. Use the search engine to get his web site and toll free number. Bert will always return your calls and will help with any problem you have. He is easy to deal with.

[Tobe]

Good videoclips for starters:
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/index.html

I am sure that this will take your game to the next level. :wink:

[audiopro]

Nice link Tobe..