Secret to english...

[sonnic]

I just watched buddy halls clock system video. It was ok VERY SHORT! it only ran for 25 minutes (bulshit for a $25 video) anyone who saw this video knows that it is all about english and where to leave the cue ball. He said something that i didn't really grasp. "TO get proper english on the cue you have to do a tuck and roll with your right hand" Does this make sense to anyone? I know that when your hitting a draw shot you snap your wrist but what about when you are putting 2 or 3 o'clock english. I guess my main question is What is TUCK AND ROLL?

[New Kid In The Hall]

I agree with Bob Byrnes...you don't need tuck and roll or snap of the wrist, etc...spin is applied by default to a cue ball struck with a cue anywhere but dead center. The amount of spin is proportional to the distance from center you strike the cue ball. The effect of the spin is related to many items...the friction/nap of the table cloth/felt, the distance between cue ball and object ball (travel over the table will reduce backspin and build up to natural forward roll, etc.).

Making smooth strokes is the key...

[sonnic]

I have always heard that your supose to be straight back and straight through moving only the wrist part of the arm. Is there anyone who agrees with Buddy Hall and thinks moving the wrist one way or the other promotes more spin?

[sanj]

i also agree with bob byrne.keep the cue level ,have a smooth stroke and follow through.this works for me and is always consistant.

[sonnic]

so your saying you think that your getting all the english you would ever need? I would think that if you did the "tuck and roll" whatever exactly that is, that you would get more english than usual but also you would probibly give up conversly accuracy. Im not claiming this is true BUDDY HALL IS. Im just tring to see if im the only one who doesn't know what the heck he's talking about.

How many people have seen the buddy hall "Clock Video"?

[ttruong]

Am I workng to snap my wrist? I don't know about you guys, but I do snap my wrist when I draw the cue ball. I've been told that I have one of the steadiest strokes (not a rocking motion like some people), and I snap my wrist a bit at the end of the stroke to generate a better follow through. Think about it next time you draw, if you were to have your wrist remain locked the hit would be stiff so the follow through is limited. Just as your elbow acts on a hinge so should your wrist.

It may not sound logical because you want to have the steadiest stroke as possible, but the action is relatively settle.

I also snap my wrist on english strokes so I can pass through the ball as quickly as possible. When the cue stays too long on the ball it doesn't generate enough spin. So snapping the wrist just forces the cue to pass the cue ball as quickly as possible in order to generate sufficient draw/english.

I don't know what it means to tuck and roll, but I'm sure most of us do it but it's probably so in tuned with your stroke that you don't notice it. Just like snapping your wrist, I never thought about it until I read this post and went out to the tables to test it out.

[dags_lax]

I also snap my wrist on english strokes so I can pass through the ball as quickly as possible. When the cue stays too long on the ball it doesn't generate enough spin. So snapping the wrist just forces the cue to pass the cue ball as quickly as possible in order to generate sufficient draw/english.

When you snap your wrist you are accelerating through the cue ball. The mechanics of a good stroke, whether you snap your wrist or not, will have the cue stick still accelerating at the moment of contact with the cue ball.

When the cue tip hits the cue ball the two are in contact for only the tinniest fraction of a second. If the cue is accelerating through the cue ball the tip will stay in contact with the ball for just a little longer than if the cue stick were traveling at a constant velocity or decelerating. The longer contact time results in more friction between the cue tip and the cue ball. More friction translates to more spin.

Whether you snap your wrist or not it makes no difference to the balls. It is a matter of velocity and acceleration. how that is achieved is up to the individual player.

[New Kid In The Hall]

dags_lax...well stated...it's a matter of pure physics...some people can generate a tad more acceleration by snapping their wrists...fine, but it is not necessary.

[Jawathan]

i have that video but have not watched it yet, i can't believe its only 25 mins long!!!

[GTH]

I have seen many a 3 cushion player use the ole "tuck and roll". For example a right-handed player when playing right english allows his stroke to go out away from his body as he follows through, which applies more english to the cue ball. The reasoning behind this is that the cue by following the natural curvature of the cue ball stays with the ball longer thereby applying more english to the ball. Personally, I don't like the idea as it introduces inconsistency into your stroke.


GTH

[Lou]

Buddy said that shooting straight into the ball, rather than "tucking and rolling" your stroking arm, causes uncontrollable deflection. Like some of you pointed out, I'd be more concerned about the inconsistency in the stroke. In fact, I was surprised this, because Bert Kinister says in Don Feeney's third tape that Buddy Hall said that one's stroke must always be the same. I'm left scratching my head here. Alison Fisher writes on her Web site that she repositions her body to compensate for shooting to the side of the cue ball. There are certainly no inconsistencies in her stroke. Not to knock Buddy - his game speaks for itself - but his ability to manage tuck and roll is probably the exception to the rule.

I watched the tape for the first time this morning. The clock system is helpful, but you understand the point after the first viewing. Since there's no need to watch it more than once, my copy is going on eBay.

[New Kid In The Hall]

This "tuck and roll" thing as it seems to be described sounds to me what Predator has engineered into the Z shaft. Watch the Z shaft demo quicktime on the Predator site and you can see that they are claiming the flexible tip of the Z actually bends away from the cue ball center to stay in contact with the cue to promote spin, but moves away so as to not induce squirt/deflection in the cueball off the intended line of aim.

Seems like the technology is taking care of it. Stroke straight and through.

[jkregan]

A smooth, level, accelerating stroke below the center of the ball will produce draw. How much is a function of velocity and how low you hit the ball.

Hitting the ball harder to get draw imparts too much momentum for the backspin to overcome.

To practice pinpoint draw, try the side pocket drill where you arrange 3 to 7 balls in an arc around a side pocket and, starting at one end of the arc, pocket the balls in order, each time using draw to get position on the next ball.