Difference between all the performance shafts

[maverick]

I was recently using a z shaft second generation for my schon cue until it split in the middle 3 inches from the tip. Thus, i asked around then found out that it was the problem with predator. Therefore, i'm looking at trying other shafts. I already tried the blackdot but i found it very heavy. Also, i tried x tiger but i didn't like it. I'm looking at the ob1 shaft or any other shaft. Can you help me out with this? Should i stick with predator or shift to another performance shaft or stick with the original schon shaft as recommended by a few friends?

[skor]

First thing you should do is contact Predator and see how they can help you, if your shaft was on the recall list then you might get a new one from them.

I would stick with predator but that's just me....

[pool808]

i believe the recll only covered the ferule. i had a shaft that was subject to recall and thats what they told me. I have a similar problem with predator too. i have a 314^2 shaft with my schon but the shaft is now warp. I don't break with cue or leave my cues int he hot car. I even hang all my cues when i am not using them to prevent warping. a friend of mine also recommend the original schon shaft.

[dags_lax]

If you liked the the taper and small diameter tip of the Z shaft there is I3 shaft from McDermott and TX8 shaft from Universal.

[Monique]

Hi Maverick, that does sound like it could be a problem with the shaft. I just spoke with Predator and they said that you should defiantly send it in and let them look at it she also said that is not something that happens very often and could very well be a warranty issue. You can reach Predator at 888-314-4111. Please let me know if there is anything more we can help you with.

[skor]

seyberts + predator = the best customer service you can get.... ;-)

[Thelucasilord]

I would try the ob1. i recently got to shoot with it and loved the action. i am considering getting one for a backup if anything were to happen to my shaft (heaven forbid).

[poohkiller]

The shaft breaking apart is a very scarse thing and I wouldn't really give more than 0.001 percent chance that the same would happen to you in the next few centuries.
From what you said it is hard to tell what could have been the source of what has happened, I don't know if it happened after a hard shot, etc...

I wouldn't go for the I3, but that's just me. I have played with an I2 and an I3 recently and I wasn't impressed... The new Universal shaft sounds exciting, but I would stay with Predator.

Anyways, I may have found out a probable cause for your shaft breaking apart: the Z2 shafts are 11.75 mm in diameter and Predator says that if you turn your Z shaft "under 11.40 mm the warranty will be voided." Isn't it possible that you've been using a sandpaper to clean your shaft and that sanded off way too much of the shaft? For how long did you own that shaft?

If you've been using it for a couple of months and you used sandpaper to clean the shaft then I suppose that your shaft got too thin and it broke because it became too weak.

Could it be the case?

[McChen]

yeah i don't think this is a common problem with predator shafts, otherwise we'd have heard about it. i have 5 different predator shafts and none have had any problems. maybe if you used water to clean your shaft, the glue weakened over time. the glue they use is water based.

[poohkiller]

McChen, you are right about the glue but many friends of mine use a damped/very-very slightly wet cloth to clean their Predator 2nd gen. shafts and I think you'd have to use a lot of water to dissolve the glue in it. Yet, it is possible, of course, and that might be a solution too.

[McChen]

yeah, it seems unlikely that you would get it wet enough to dissolve the glue, but perhaps over time it might be possible. to be on the safe side, i use alcohol instead of water. raises the grain a lot less too, esp if you're using something like a magic eraser

[pool808]

the best way to clean the predotr shaft is with alcohol so it evaporates quickly. what do you guys think abou schon shafts. i am thinking about going back to a schn shaft with my schon but i want the shaft to be 12.25 in diameter. what do you guys think about this setup.

[poohkiller]

I think that going back to a Schon shaft could be a good idea, as I am 80% sure that my next cue won't have a performance shaft on it either. Of course I love my 314(2) and am amazed on how well it plays, spins and does everything but I am very curious how would a true Schon feel with its original shaft.
But that being said - I, personally - wouldn't go for the 12.25 first. If you have already had a Schon shaft @ 13 mm and didn't like it or would like to try something new then go for the 12.25 but firstly I'll and would go for a standard shaft - maybe would give a try to the Schon IV shaft (that comes with an ivory ferrule, but that's simply out of curiousity too).
In case you're sure about the 12.25 Seybert's can do the customizing too.

[KJ]

I would suggest that you forgo any thought of reducing the diameter of any shaft with an ivory ferrule. The reason being that ivory is brittle and subject to cracking, even at 13mm. Reducing it's diameter results in a reduced wall thickness of the ferrule making it even more susceptible to cracking. Just my thoughts.

[pool808]

hey KJ
does reducing the diameter of the regular schon shaft change the way it hits and would you have a problem with it with the regular schon shaft

[KJ]

Certainly changing the shaft's diameter will change the way the shaft plays but I haven't heard of any ferrule issues as a result.

[roju1645]

Hello all,
I have been hearing about this shaft splitting or cracking problem with Predator shafts, makes me worry about the Z2 purchase (blunder?) I just made through ebay. Not significantly cheap but saved me a little $ :rolleyes:, better than nothing! It is curently on shipment and will be received Oct 12.
Now, I have to ask... On Ebay buys like this, would these Predator shafts still be entitled to a warranty (from Predator)?
If not, since I am not the original owner anymore, is there a way to somehow acquire warranty from them (Predator)?
Ebay buyers have also put their trust in the product too as much as direct store buyers did, right?
Thanks.
roju1645

[pool808]

hey roju
i don't think that the warranty will carry over. the only reason i see t splitting is if you break with it or use water to clean your shaft. make sure you use alcohol to lean it because predator uses a waterbase glue. the alcohol will evaporate much quicker than water so it doesn't dilute the glue.

[roju1645]

Hello nice people,
I like my shaft dentless, clean and smooth.
Whenever I find intolerable dent on my shaft, I pop 'em out by wrapping it with wet paper towel for 2 to 4 hrs, making it swell a little bit. Then I dry it off by rubbing a dry towel. Wella, dentless :o.
To clean it after a night of pool-playing, I damp a piece of cloth with glass cleaner to peel the chalk off and then varnish it with the leather side of my Q-wiz. I always catch myself Q-wizing it quite frequently, that drives my wife crazy and just wanna grab my shaft away and wack me with it.
Occassionally (once a month perhaps) I apply Orange-Glo wood cleaner & Polish http://www.orangeglowood.com/faq.htm , to revitalize it to natural luster.
Do anybody think that I may be doing something damaging to my shaft with these?
Do you think the above rituals would probably hurt P 314s & Zs?
Roju1645

[pool808]

the wet paper towel for 2 to 4 hours will definitely hurt 314 and the Z because the glue they use is water base. i would not do that to any predator shafts. a way that worked for me in the past when dealing with dents on a predator shaft is putting alcohol inside an steam iron and use the steam to pop it out. the alcohol will evaporate quickly so it doesn't sip into the wood. i hope this helps

[roju1645]

pool808,
wow...alcohol inside a steam iron. that is something new, never heard that b4. wonder if that would'nt damage the steam iron instead. i imagine this would be a quick process, how long did you do that b4 the dent popped away?
I also read about a past advise either by you or kj about applying small drop of water right on the dent, soaked in 4 hrs. if that works too, then it is easier to do but would take longer time, am i right?
Thanks.
roju1645.

[dags_lax]

If you think water is a problem with a Predator shaft just think what a petroleum or alcohol based solvent will do to the glue. A slightly damp terry cloth rag is much easier on a shaft than any solvent.

As for Predator's warranty that is another story. I 've gone round and round with a Predator rep on the issue of a shaft being covered under warranty if the shaft doesn't have the Predator logo on it. In my case I’ve had my shafts custom fitted to my cues from Predator blanks and, at my request, without the decal, even though the cuemaker told me that Predator will not warrant their product in this instance. But this also affects shafts that have lost the logo due to being refinished or just normal wear and tear.

The best answer I could get out of Predator is that they will deal with these issues on a case by case basis. But I wonder if the blue oval fell off the grill of my truck or Pontiac badge off my wife's car would those manufactures say in these cases we will handle warranty issues on a case by case basis.

Now I know that Predator can set the conditions or terms of their warranty, or for that matter it is even obligated to offer a warranty at all. I knew going into my transactions that I probably would not have any warranty on the Predator shafts. So I shouldn't have any right to bitch, but bitch I will. What I see in this is a company that stands behind it's marketing and a 2¢ decal rather than their product.

Now lest anyone thinks this is just a sour grapes rant on my part let me say this: I have never had an issue with the three Predator shafts I purchased, for my Schon, Nova and Jackson cues. Or for the Predator cue I bought for that matter. I have no issues with quality of materials and workmanship in the Predator shafts.

[pool808]

all im saying is that alcohol worked fine for me before and i have not had any problem with my predator shaft except for the recall they ahd about the ferule. the alcohol just evaporates a lot quicker and it does not sip into the wood.

[roju1645]

Great forum, great discussion!

Regarding warranty, My take is that all Predator cues and other products when proven original and without any negligence in using them nor alterations, should be covered with its manufacturers warranty.
Whether you are or are not the original purchaser, the item has been originally paid for...to them. All who owns their product now has put their full trust in them.
I hope we can get positive response from them about this issue, that would even make their company more appealing, stronger, dependable and reliable.

Can we forward our clamor to Predator then?

roju1645

[KJ]

[QUOTE=KJ;38233][QUOTE=dags_lax;38223]
As for Predator's warranty that is another story. I 've gone round and round with a Predator rep on the issue of a shaft being covered under warranty if the shaft doesn't have the Predator logo on it. In my case I’ve had my shafts custom fitted to my cues from Predator blanks and, at my request, without the decal, even though the cuemaker told me that Predator will not warrant their product in this instance. But this also affects shafts that have lost the logo due to being refinished or just normal wear and tear.

The best answer I could get out of Predator is that they will deal with these issues on a case by case basis. But I wonder if the blue oval fell off the grill of my truck or Pontiac badge off my wife's car would those manufactures say in these cases we will handle warranty issues on a case by case basis.

Now I know that Predator can set the conditions or terms of their warranty, or for that matter it is even obligated to offer a warranty at all. I knew going into my transactions that I probably would not have any warranty on the Predator shafts. So I shouldn't have any right to bitch, but bitch I will. What I see in this is a company that stands behind it's marketing and a 2¢ decal rather than their product.

Dax,
You admit that you knew of the decal issue regarding your warranty when you had your shafts built, yet you freely & willingly chose to forgo the decal for aesthetic reasons. You willingly gave up your warranty. There's no analogy to the blue oval here. You knew what the circumstances were and you chose otherwise. You can't hold Predator or anyone else liable for the choices that you make.

As far as the decal wearing off, I've had literally thousands of Predator shafts go through my hands and not one has shown any signs of the decal being worn-off. The decal is applied under the finish. In the case of refinishing the shaft, any authorized personnel will have access to replacement decals. It's not about protecting a 2 cent decal, it's about protecting the Predator product, the Predator image and the masses of Predator clients who have bought their products. Can you imagine the outcome of someone mass-marketing Predator knock-off shafts, only without the decal. Here's an analogy for you, it would be equivalent to a foreign country counterfeiting American dollars and flooding the world market. Sooner or later, the value of the dollar would fall. So with Predator products.

I mean no offense to anyone in any of my responses. I'm just not real good at sugar-coating the truth.

[skor]

a lot of products will lose the warranty if they are handled by an unauthorized person, some electrical products have stickers to cover the casing screws that once removed will void the warranty.

I believe that it's the same for the Predator decal, as long as it's there it means that you haven't altered the shaft to void the warranty, when an authorized cuesmith puts the decal after finishing the shaft or custom fitting it, it shows predator that that the shaft was handled by someone they trust and that his actions did not create any warranty issues.

I had a Predator cue for 8 years and I still get to see it when I run into the guy I sold it to (a couple of years ago) and the decal shows no signs of wearing of.... as KJ said, it's protected under the finish

[dags_lax]

[QUOTE=KJ;38233][QUOTE=dags_lax;38223]
It's not about protecting a 2 cent decal, it's about protecting the Predator product, the Predator image and the masses of Predator clients who have bought their products. Can you imagine the outcome of someone mass-marketing Predator knock-off shafts, only without the decal. Here's an analogy for you, it would be equivalent to a foreign country counterfeiting American dollars and flooding the world market. Sooner or later, the value of the dollar would fall. So with Predator products.

Bad analogy. Counterfeiters try to exactly reproduce a bill. How would someone confuse a knock off shaft without the decal, and they are out there, with a Predator. So how would my using a shaft without the decal affect their image? It doesn't in my case but if a lot of players opted for no logo then their product might not appear to be as popular as it actually is. And I can understand if Predator is concerned about that. But then if that is what Predator is trying to prevent then as a condition of being an authorized dealer require that no Predator shaft leaves the shop without the decal.

KJ; With Seybert’s being the largest Predator dealer how many Predator shafts do you customize (mate to the butt, match ring work, turndown, refinish etc.) in a week? Of those, how many customers, besides me, have requested no logo? And are those customers informed of the warranty issue. I don't recall in my dealings with Seybert's that they ever mentioned that. Tony from Jackson Cues informed me five or six years ago when he did a custom shaft for me. Anyway I think we are talking a relatively few number of shafts here.

Again I would like to reiterate that, in my case anyway, I knew what I was getting into. But what about others who didn't? And my objections are not necessarily for me. I doubt if I would ever need warranty work on them as they have been relegated to back up shaft status for cues that I rarely get out of the case anyway.

We can banter back and forth about this issue forever but the reasoning behind the policy offered here is just supposition on our part. None of us speaks for Predator. And unless someone from Predator chimes in on the issue with their reasoning behind the policy and convinces me otherwise I am of the OPINION that, intentional or not, this policy sacrifices customer service (probably just a very, very few customers) to the gods of marketing.

And yes my blue oval analogy was badly stated. Instead of saying if it fell off I should have said that “if I intentionally removed it.”

BTW KJ; Your postings stay on topic and never disparage any one personally so why should anyone take offence? I for one don’t.

[dags_lax]

a lot of products will lose the warranty if they are handled by an unauthorized person, some electrical products have stickers to cover the casing screws that once removed will void the warranty.

I believe that it's the same for the Predator decal, as long as it's there it means that you haven't altered the shaft to void the warranty, when an authorized cuesmith puts the decal after finishing the shaft or custom fitting it, it shows predator that that the shaft was handled by someone they trust and that his actions did not create any warranty issues.

I had a Predator cue for 8 years and I still get to see it when I run into the guy I sold it to (a couple of years ago) and the decal shows no signs of wearing of.... as KJ said, it's protected under the finish


A lot can be done to a shaft that would void any warranty without removing the logo. As for authorized and trusted cuesmiths I think the folks at Jackson Cues and KJ here at Seybert's fit the bill and they are the ones that did the "logo free" work for me. I have the receipts to prove it.

[KJ]

Dax,
Yup, you're right, there aren't that many clients that refuse the logo and the warranty in an attempt to convince people that they aren't really playing with a Predator.

[pool808]

Dax,
Yup, you're right, there aren't that many clients that refuse the logo and the warranty in an attempt to convince people that they aren't really playing with a Predator.

i agree with your point KJ that there's a few players that don't want to be known as a predator player. one of the biggest cash game players i know at the pool hall shoots with a no logo predatos shaft on his mcdaniel cue.