Fully Spliced vs. Solid

[Willieboy]

Hey KJ. I have always wondered if there are any inherent benifits or drawbacks to a fully spliced cue like the old Titleist cues versus the more modern solid butt cues made today. By solid, I'm referring to the forearm only, not the butt sleeve.

I think I remember reading that fully spliced cues came into being because the gooey messy glue of old was of inferior quality and splicing was needed to provide more gluing surfaces.

An help will be appreciated.

[KJ]

Hi Bill,
There certainly are benefits to the 'full-spliced' forearm as opposed to the one piece or solid type forearm. Apparently, a method was needed to join 2 sections of wood that would yield a superior connection and the 'full-splice' method did just that.
A solid one piece maple cue 56/57" long would have a higher likelihood of warping than a cue that was jointed at a strategic point along it's length to another piece of wood. This also allowed the use of a heavier wood to be used in the handle area for better balance and wght. distribution. A solid maple cue by it's self could weigh as little as 12 oz. and be very susceptible to warpage. Obviously, the 4 finger full-splice method was far superior to just about any other method known at that time and still proves to be superior today. When you consider just the glue surface area of a full-splice compared to say a flat-faced end grain connection, the difference is staggering and the difference in strength is equally as staggering. Maybe I don't get around much anymore but I have never seen a one piece full-splice house/bar type cue break in the area of the points.
I don't believe that the full-splice is the result of the lesser quality glue that was available at that time. The glue of that era certainly had/has it's drawbacks. Unfortunately, a lot of custom cues made by the great builders of that era are today showing signs of debonding. All that can be said for the glues of that time compared to what we use today is that they did the job AT THAT TIME. I don't think that anyone expected some of those old cues to still be around 50 yrs. later.
Good question, Thanx Bill

[Willieboy]

Thanks for the answer KJ. I cannot begin to imagine how the cuts were made to create the splices. It's too bad all makers today don't offer fully spliced cues. Imagine that the fully spliced and least expensive cues, the plain old Sneaky Petes, may be the best deal going if strength is the primary criteria.

Do you make fully spliced cues KJ?

[poohkiller]

Great idea Willieboy asking about full splices here! I've created a same related topic, but KJ certainly can give us some "behind-the-scenes" information!
There's something I find strange (quote from Seybert's page): "Predator Sneaky Pete Is Made With A Traditional Full Splice Of South American Rosewood". Well, to be honest back when I've ordered my 5k2 I was thinking about ordering an SP8RJL. I loved its look, the points (my favorite trimmings are the points - not the floating ones), but it was a bit more expensive than the 5k2 and it had no Seybert's bucks... So I decided to go for the 5k2 - which I fell in love with -, but if I knew that the SPs are full-spliced then maybe I would have waited for some more time to save a bit more cash...
Long story short I would like to know whether the Predator SPs are full-spliced or not...

Finally let me tell you (once again :o)) that I would love to see/come across way more full-spliced cues! I mean it would be great if (within a few years) I could find a few players down at the local pool hall playing with a full-spliced cue - or at least with a traditional looking one... Don't misunderstand me, I love the look of the fancy 5k7s or even the fancy custom cues but... just look at jsggems' collection! I love the plain (khm... I mean that 4 pointer super-nice :-D) Capone and the Bender...

[KJ]

Do you make fully spliced cues KJ?

Hi Bill,
While there are a handful of highly gifted cuemakers in this country doing full-splice forearms, I humbly, have not yet attained that level of accomplishment. The initial cutting of the wood is similar to that employed by the one piece house cue manufacturers but that's where the similarity ends.
The house cues are made by the thousands and they don't care if the points don't line up, just so long as it fits up good. A cuemaker indeed cares about his points, IMHO, it's a measure of that builders status. It takes a long time & a great deal of precision to properly build a full-splice forearm. If that type of precision & attention to detail is present in his points, you can take it to the bank that it's evident throughout the entire cue. Full-splice custom cues are expensive & they should be.

[Willieboy]

Thanks again KJ. Your responces are thoughtful and informative.

Bill

[poohkiller]

8O :? ...and what about the SP? Why are they stated as full-spliced cues?

[KJ]

8O :? ...and what about the SP? Why are they stated as full-spliced cues?

Hey Pooh,
The SP is stated to be full-splice because they are full-splice. Don't forget, Predator sells quite a few of these and they aren't made one at a time. They are built in both the 4 point & 8 point configuration. Quite a neat trick.

[poohkiller]

Thank you very much for your reply, KJ! To be honest firstly I thought that it is only some kind of a marketing slogan or something like that... and I thought this secondly too because you mentioned that it is a time-consuming process that requires exceptional care. But now I know that they're full-spliced and that Predator was straight in this thing too.
Thank you again.

Pooh

[skor]

there is a machine splice and a hand made splice, the quality is not the same.... I would go with a hand made full splice cue over a machine splice any day

[poohkiller]

I agree with you skor on that one, that wasn't a question! I just wanted to know what is it like at Predator!
I would go for the hand-made splice too for sure!

[skor]

I just wanted to know what is it like at Predator!

machine splice

[Willieboy]

As a factory made cue, at the price of the Sneaky Petes, I certainly would not expect hand made splices.

My cues are all fully spliced, not because of snobishness (sp?) on my part, I just like the traditional look in cues.

[Willieboy]

I wonder how the Predator series 2 cues compare strengthwise.

I once gave my brother, a thug, a Rambow cue that he tried to break over someone's head. The butt held up just fine. My brother went to prison.

[poohkiller]

As a factory made cue, at the price of the Sneaky Petes, I certainly would not expect hand made splices.

I wouldn't expect those either but for the price it is not a problem!


I once gave my brother, a thug, a Rambow cue that he tried to break over someone's head. The butt held up just fine. My brother went to prison.
8O

[skor]

Did he go to prison for trying to break a Rambow cue or for trying to kill someone :?: :? 8O :cry:

[Willieboy]

He had a long rap sheet, including assault. I think the judge just got tired of looking at him and gave them both a vacation from each other.

I had the cue made for him by Rambow. Rambow had written his usual "Made especially for Tony*&%$&)*& by Rambow" on the forearm. When he showed the cue to me, the joint was messed up from the contact with the other guy's head. I traded a bowling ball to my brother for his broken cue. I took the cue back to Rambow and he repaired it....good as new. Then my brother, wanted the cue back so, idiot that I am, I gave it back to him. He was my kid brother after all and I loved him. He's deceased now and the whereabouts of his cue is unknown. Should have given him a bowling ball in the first place.

[poohkiller]

I honestly feel sorry for your brother :( :( Along that you are a very nice guy for loving your little brother that much and for doing all those things for him.

[Willieboy]

Thanks Pooh. My brother was a troubled guy and I didn't set a very good example for him growing up.