Adams CC Balabushka ???

[daluqfam]

I'm a middle aged, novice pool player...who so far limits his playing to family gatherings at home. It's a great sport and all of my son in laws & daughters entertain ourselves royally during the holidays with challenges and good wine. I read and watch all of the pool that I can to improve my skills. Our pool room is on the small side so we use a 7ft. table and we use Cuetec "Allison Fisher" cues because they are 1.5in. shorter. I do have another pool table upstairs that is an 8fter....but for some reason we don't use that one as much since it is not close to the bar. LOL My question is about the Adams Cue Company's Balabushka Collection. Are they good top notch cues? How do they compare in the $600 price range? Have any of you used them?

[skor]

these are nice cues, and it hard to find a cue that would look as sharp as these at that price BUT you can get a much better cue for that price (but a more simple looking), just look into Schon, Mezz, Joss, Pechauer and Jacoby.

[daluqfam]

Thanks, Skor, that's the type info that I'm looking for. (Reading between the lines) I'm getting the drift that these Balabuska's by Adams are very fancy and eye appealing...but there are others makes out there that out perform them. Correct?

PS: I know that it all comes down to each's opinion....but I respect the forum members' opinions the most because of your experience and lack of endorsements.

[daluqfam]

Another "rookie, stupid" question. Skor, you can help me with this. Can I look at s maker like Schon and have them make a cue for me with 2 shafts? One shaft of normal length and one slightly shorter for my smaller pool room. (Say 1.5in. shorter.) ??? Or does the shortening of a cue, let's say to ladies length, take place in the butt end? I think the Allison Fisher models that we use ar 55.5in. long.

[skor]

Some cue makers offer the options of different sizes for shafts, you can also ask the guys at seybers, they have a cue-smith that can do all kind of custom work for you.

from Schon web site:

Extra shafts are available in almost all specs. They are essentially interchangeable, but if you would like the best result or would like to match your existing shaft for hit, you should send the cue to us.
Shafts with standard ferrule $160.00
ivory ferrule $225.00

[audiopro]

I had one a few years ago, I think it was the GB4... Actually, the cues are pretty good quality, and the feel and balance were great! The clear coat on it did seem to chip kinda easily though. Personally, for 6 bills, I would look into something else. Perhaps a nice Viking or a Schon.

[poohkiller]

I had one a few years ago, I think it was the GB4... Actually, the cues are pretty good quality, and the feel and balance were great! The clear coat on it did seem to chip kinda easily though. Personally, for 6 bills, I would look into something else. Perhaps a nice Viking or a Schon.

Well, here, in my smaaall lil' country, I found only one Balabushka.. Not sure that it was made by Adams cues, but I'm sure that it was 650 $... And I didn't even liked it. Shot with a few times and I must tell you that for this price you can find many-many better cues! As I pulled my fingers over the sleeve I could feel the inlays very much.. You could've seen how the cue was put together.. I mean how the sleeve was put together for example.. The points were sharp but they weren't the same long!! There was a noticable difference between them! ANd I can also promise that it was original - I mean by adams or something, so it wasn't put together by me at home.. And it was expensive!
So I reckon that you turn towards Schon and Mezz.. The Schons are beautiful - no doubt about it! I've seen an STL-7... and it was amazing! Go for the Schon or the Mezz way! <--- that's my advice..

[dags_lax]

When is the last time you heard someone say it hits as good as a (take yout pick) Mezz, Viking, Joss or even Predator etc ? If you are looking for a cue in the price range of a Schon you might as well get a Schon.

[daluqfam]

Thanks, everybody! Got enough input on my decision. Going with a Schon... I'll make the call today and start the inquiry. I'll probably go with a STL-1....or 3. I don't need to spend more than that.

[daluqfam]

Just ordered a Schon STL3 and an extra Predator 314 shaft (shortened to 27in.) The standard Schon shaft coming with the STL3 will make up my 58in. cue and the 314 will make up my need for a 56in. cue for my smaller room. Expecting delivering around 2wks. ... cue & extra shaft set me back $650. I feel, based on all of the input that I received from the forum, that I'm getting fair value for my purchase. Thanks, Everyone!

[skor]

good decision....

BTW I have the stl-3 it plays great and I like it's simple look

[daluqfam]

My shaft just arrived FedEx. Nicely packaged and protected. Bad news is the Predator 314-2 shaft (which I had shortened 1in. to 28) has a noticable *crack* in it right behind the tip ferrule. (This is the obvious area that the shaft was worked on to shorten it.) The butt (Schon STL3) is gorgeous along with the Schon std.length shaft...and I couldn't be more pleased with the Schon choice. "Pouring salt over a wide wound" the 1st time that did my preshot routine with my practice stroke with the 314-2 ... I got a splinter in my finger on my bridge hand. LOL (That's not the way that it's supposed to work!) Anyway, I don't know if the custom work took place at Seybert's or Predator's plant.... all I know is that I have a call into Rick and I'm waiting for him to find some time to call me back.

[Neil Fujiwara]

They must have shortened it at the tip end, otherwise the joint diameters won't match up. That means they altered the front end technology, the wall thickness might be an issue which caused the crack.

The internal boring has 2 stages, the bottom stage is wider since there is more meat in the shaft. If they shortened it then tapered the shaft down to 12.75mm-13mm then the wall thickness may not be sufficient to hold up over time.

Please let us know how they take care of the situation, thank you.

[daluqfam]

Just for everybody to know.... Rick called back within 90min. and I reported the problem to him. I got the info from Rick that the shortening of the Pred.shaft took place at Seybert's shop & that somebody didn't inspect their work before it went out. Rick instructed me to mail it back and he would start on the replacement one for me. I'm satisfied with that as long as the shortening of the shaft doesn't weaken it's strength. I, being a novice, and seeing Predator shafts being offered in a multitude of lengths, I presumed that this shortening process after the manufacturer was a common practice that is considered fail safe with no strength or performance concerns.

Neil Fujiwara, your knowledge of Predator's manufacturing process, and your seeming concern for the long term integrety of the shaft has me concerned. I have not mailed the shaft back to Seybert's as of yet. Would I get a better, more durable shaft if you saw to it that Predator, at it's assembly shop, would construct the shaft from the start at the 27in. length rather than having it chopped after it has already been assembled & finished as a std. length shaft? Neil, I open to suggestions.

[Neil Fujiwara]

Unfortunately we only make 2 lengths of shafts, 29" and 30", we would not be able to make one at 27". It's great that they are going to resolve the issue for you and admit to not inspecting the shaft like they should have.

They have very qualified people there and I am sure that any work they have done to the shaft they will stand behind.

[daluqfam]

Neil, yes I was wrong about the 27in. length....it was really 28inches. (That really shows my novice knowledge.) Again, reiterating, Rick has agreed to replace the shortened 314-2. Neil,representing Predator, in your professional opinion, am I getting the shortened 314 in the best manner possible (durability and playability)?

[Neil Fujiwara]

That's hard to say since I don't know exactly what they are doing to shorten the shaft. But I am sure they are doing it the best way possible, they have been dealing with our product for years and know it inside out. There are many good reasons why they are our largest dealer in the world and growing at an unheard of rate with us considering their size.

[daluqfam]

Neil, as you remarked and hypothesized that Sebert's was big and sales were volumous so that meant that they were good...hmmm... I am here to tell you that I'm starting to develop the opposite opinion. Many times a companies sales growth pulls them further and further away from what got them there in the first place. Attention to detail and quality control. My experience in getting this Schon/Predator cue through them so far has not been a good one.

[daluqfam]

Neil, well it is Wed. feb7th, and FedEx just dropped off the replacement shafts. I've got another question for you... or anyone else of experience that would like to jump in. When screwing this new Pred.314-2 shaft into my Schon STL3 butt... the shaft doesn't seat itself completely! I'm not going to force it but it is definitely hitting the stop and there is still a sliver of daylight between the 2 sections. ???? Is this normal? Or do I have another concern here? Comparatively, my other shaft, the Schon shaft, fits flush and seats itself snuggly. If you say that is somewhat normal then I will go with it. This whole ordeal seems to influence one to look for a good custom cue maker, visit him, look at his samples, and place the order personally.

[poohkiller]

Neil, well it is Wed. feb7th, and FedEx just dropped off the replacement shafts. I've got another question for you... or anyone else of experience that would like to jump in. When screwing this new Pred.314-2 shaft into my Schon STL3 butt... the shaft doesn't seat itself completely! I'm not going to force it but it is definitely hitting the stop and there is still a sliver of daylight between the 2 sections. ???? Is this normal? Or do I have another concern here? Comparatively, my other shaft, the Schon shaft, fits flush and seats itself snuggly. If you say that is somewhat normal then I will go with it. This whole ordeal seems to influence one to look for a good custom cue maker, visit him, look at his samples, and place the order personally.

I wouldn't be nervious for that one. A player around here has a Schön STL-7 and butt cap just doesn't fit to the sleeve properly.. And what's more: there are no 2 all-the-way similar Schön STL-7s (for example, but there's no two similar schöns from the type you've got) and as a result there always can be differences at joint diameters. The same is at McDermott. The Intimidator-2 didn't perfectly fit onto a Shadow (M1-2Q I quess) as that was made by hand too. These things happen at custom-made cues. Each cue is turned down with it's own shaft so there's no guarantee for a new shaft to fit your cue.

[daluqfam]

Thanks, poohkiller for the info. The gap of daylight between the 2 butts of each segment (butt and shaft) is less than the thickness of a sheet of paper. I was just concerned whether it would affect the ferrule connection at the joint. Would it cause weakening over time and play because the shoulder of each was not resting against each other. Does it place all of the stress absorbed in each shot on the screw joint excessively? That was my concern. Hey, pk, thanks for answering. You know, Rick at Seybert's thinks that I'm a problem, but over $600 went into their register.... I view that as hard earned money in anybody's checkbook. I just want it to be right.

[poohkiller]

Hey, I know exactly how you feel as I'm only 17, I'm a student and it took me so many time too to earn the money for my 5k2 (it'll be here tomorrow and I've ordered from Seybert's too). So I know how do you feel.

Well, if that segment is only that small I'd go for putting/forcing the two pieces into one. What might have happened is that the screw of your butt is a bit too "in" the butt, I mean it's too deeply in there - if it's possible. As I understand (hope not misunderstaning :? ) the lowest part of the shaft does not meet with the upper (and flat) part of the joint (not the screw but the end of the butt). Maybe there's only a 1/60 of a full turn of the shaft is needed to make the two parts rest against each other. I don't know how does it feel (how stuck the shaft is) but I'd go for that 1/60 turn and screw it on.
The truth is that I defineatly wouldn't play with the cue in this shape as all the forces that take effect would be transfered and soaked up by the screws of the shaft and by the pin. After a few hours of play it would brake it down as the most of the energy is transfered and soaked up (I can't find a better word for it, sorry..) by the flat platforms of the butt's joint area and the shafts collar's underneath area and not by the pin and/or the screws of the shaft.

All in all: If you don't feel like it's impossible or if there is not that much distance between the two parts I'd make them meet perfectly. BTW I can't take any guarantees on this one so don't blame if anything wrong would happen but as I mentioned if the distance is smaller than the thickness of a piece of paper I'd try it...

[poohkiller]

Sorry for the ridicolous "quality".. This is what's your problem is, right? (I just want to avoid any misunderstandings as due to my English I could have misunderstood you :? ) Of course the distance might be smaller, I just wanted you to see what do I reckon.

[daluqfam]

Poohkiller, your English is perfect! (IMHO, most my American bretheren don't write as well as you.) Your illustration and your explanation toward my problem are exactly what is happening. I know that you don't represent the shaft maker or the retailer so you are very concerned that your advise to use more force to screw the 2 parts together comes with caution. Before I do that, I plan on utilizing a flash light, & inspecting the inside of the Predator shaft screw to make sure that there isn't some foreign matter inside causing the problem. If none is noticed, I'll then get out a Vernier Caliper and measure the depth of the inside length (throat) of the female screw on the shaft. I'll then measure the same inside measurement on the Schon shaft (that shaft fits perfectly) and compare the 2. Again, thanks, PK. Hope you don't have to go through the same trouble that I am. Hope your cue is perfect ! Incidentally, I'm shooting using the Schon shaft on the STL3 and it is well balance, the tip creates a lot of spin, and the overall cue has a very solid feel through the stroke. I know that I'm a novice....but the feel of this cue is substantially better than the bar cues that I've played with in the past. If the Predator Cue (after I get it to seat properly) plays better than the Schon shaft... then that would "blow me away" (an american slang). The Schon shaft more than satisfies me. Again, thanks, poohkiller. I'll keep you posted with my findings & I want to hear about your cue when it arrives.

[jkregan]

I don't want to be a pain but I think it is more appropriate to bring these concerns directly to the people at Seybert's. I have never had an inkling of a thought that Rick and the crew were anything other than totally committed to servicing their customers.

[poohkiller]

I don't want to be a pain but I think it is more appropriate to bring these concerns directly to the people at Seybert's. I have never had an inkling of a thought that Rick and the crew were anything other than totally committed to servicing their customers.

Yeah, jkregan is true as Seybert's crew is always fast and careful when it comes to servicing their customers!

Daluqfam: it is a great idea to measure the depth of the throat - but as you mentioned the distance is so small that it is easy to do the measuring with just as big error% as big the gap is.
What (unfortunately) I've forgotten is that Predator says that you should clean both the pin (in case of a Predator cue) and the screw of the shaft too! You ought to do this every 6 months.

Here it is as they say:

"We recommend cleaning the Uni-Loc® Joint when you first receive your cue and every six months thereafter. These joints are precision manufactured to exact tolerances and even a modest amount of dirt can create a problem. We suggest using a Q-Tip dipped in Isopropyl alcohol to clean the inside threads and bore of the insert in the shaft. Use a clean rag and alcohol to clean the joint pin and threads as well. We recommend the use of joint protectors as they will help to keep your joint clean, and protect it from being damaged."

I hope this helps :)

BTW, I'm glad to hear that the Schön shaft is alright but I think the Predator (which is going to fit perfectly within a very short amount of time :wink: ) will be even better!

I'll also keep you posted about my Pred - it already has its own topic called "My 5k2" :D

[PoolDad]

I would definitely be contacting Seyberts on this issue. There shouldn't be a gap at all between the shaft and the butt when screwed together.
Something is not right here but I'm sure Seyberts will stand behind it.
Just my 2 cents.

[daluqfam]

jkregan, PoolDad, & poohkiller, on normal circumstances I think that the suggestion from all 3 of you to contact Seybert's (especially Rick) would most likely be the proper protocol and procedure. This avenue has already been taken once when the 2 separate shafts were delivered the 1st time. (The Pred.shaft having a crack in it where Seybert's shortened it & the Schon shaft did not come in in the tip width that I ordered. Obviously, when ordereing,I specified that I wanted both shaft diam. the same, 12.75mm, & the only diff.between the 2 was the 314 to be 1in. shorter than std.) So, yes I did take that route. Seybert's(Rick) was obviously contacted (phone, & Info desk). This whole ordeal has been going on since I placed the order w/ Rick 1/3/07. Well, upon eventually receiving these replacement shafts today(2/7/07) that are matched in width size and neither have cracks, I was also told by Rick that since I chalked the last returning ones that I was lucky that they were charging me a restocking fee. Guys, on the 1st ones, I did make a mistake and try them out for about a dozen shots each. I had been waiting for such a long time I was anxious to see what they felt like. Rick also insinuated that I ran some brown streaks up the shafts that he said came off of my brown leather pockets. My table doesn't have brown leather pockets ! ? ! ? He also insinuated that the crack in the shaft could have come from me. (Like I've got some reason for cracking a shaft just to give Sebert's more work. I'm just a customer who wants to make a good decision on his purchase, place the order, pay for the purchase and receive the item in good working order.) So as you can see Rick is tired of me making them aware of the fact that their order was wrong. There friendly "we want to please the customer" attitude has long deteriorated in this instance. And, I would be untruthful, if I didn't admit that I'm am also tired of Rick(Seyberts). That's whiy I was hoping to cure the non-seating of the 314 shaft without having to go back there. Before I would have to do that ... I'll find a custom cue maker whose work catches my appeal. I'll, go and meet him in person & have him build me a cue... and at the same time, I will ask him to address the problem about my 314 and the Schon Cue not seating. But, guys, I than y'all for your input and effort.

[daluqfam]

Hooray! Using poohkiller's recommendation, my 314 shaft now seats firmly in the Schon handle. PK, as a last effort, and based on your info, I used the isopropyl alcohol and a Q-tip to clean out the handle's screw insert. Well, to my surprise, there was some debris that showed up on the Q-tip! Some but not a substantial amout. Not thinking that this little amount would make a difference, I then, resrewed the 2 parts together and ..... BAM.... they went together. Just like they are supposed to. If I have offended anybody in this long post... I apologize. But, all I wanted to do from the start was to order a nice cue that I would enjoy and acquire what I paid for. Thanks to all.... especially, poohkiller. Hope that your deliver of you cue.... is less complicated than mine... and very satisfactory.

[DirtieWork]

SWEET...i have been following your post and im glad everything worked out for you...enjoy

[tsuguy]

Gives you a whole new appreciation as to how precise everything is machine now a days huh?!

[DirtieWork]

Damn right...good to know though cuz i have a predator with uni lock joints and now im really glad i shelled out the extra 20 bucks for joint protectors

[daluqfam]

Hey, DirtyWork, I'm a very happy camper now...& thanks for the positive note... I feel like other forumites were sweating it out with me...because they could have easily been in my place. And tsuguy, your comment is "dead on"...the tight tolerances today are miniscule. The amount of dirt that I took out of that screw insert was so small that one wouldn't have thought that it would have made a diff. It really makes you stop and think! Thanks to everyone for your concern. I can now return to my basic, amateur, rookie caliber game and play like I'm Mr.W.Mosconi because my cue measures up. LOL

[DirtieWork]

Well hey glad to hear that u are happy and i dont know if you transport your cue a lot to different pool halls and the what not but if you do you might want to consider getting joint protectors...

[daluqfam]

DirtieWork, joint protectors will be my next purchase...Thanks for the prompting! Ok. forumites... I'm just a novice and I don't really have that keen of a feel for what makes a good cue compared to the more experienced players ... but with my limitation stated... I have to pass on this opionion that I've formed. The 314 (Predator) shaft on the Schon handle makes for a more solid, english producing, playable cue ... than the Schon handle with the matching Schon shaft. I've only enjoyed it for a couple of hours but... there is a disctinct difference, feel and playability to the cue with the 314 on it. Again, I'm not an advanced player...but I feel it! Skor, you were right... Schon cue / Predator shaft...good combo!

[poohkiller]

I'm very-very happy that your problem is solved daluqfam!

It really is amazing how small the tolerances are! Firstly I thought that that's only an acvice from Predator written by the PR/Marketing office to tell you one more time how great and precise their cue/technology is but no! I was wrong it really does matter!

I wish you enjoy your Schön/Predator combo for a very long time! Good luck and happy shooting with them! :wink:

[PoolDad]

Enjoy your cue Dalugfam. I'm glad everything has worked out for you. You'll see your game improve a great deal with the Schon\predator shaft combo.

I am looking into getting a new cue myself and I think I'm going with another custom made, maybe a Bryan Mordt.