Frozen OB rail shots

Anyone has a link or pictures of how these shots suppose to be made? I would like to see a video or a picture as to how a cue ball suppose to impact a rail. Frozen rail shots are one of the shots that is hard to make consistently and to control the cue ball afterwards.

[DZ314]

I do not know of any pics or vids, but I do know that according to Bob Byrne the rail must be contacted slightly before the OB is contacted so that the CB is actually rebounding from the rail as it makes contact with the OB. Try it out.

[skor]

Here is a picture that show how to cut a ball frozen to the rail, you can see that hitting the rail first is only right on shots with a certain angle



I hope that this will be of help

Here is a picture that show how to cut a ball frozen to the rail, you can see that hitting the rail first is only right on shots with a certain angle



I hope that this will be of help

Great diagram!! I been working on this rail shots for the last few days and I been having a hard time to get consisent. I notice alot of pro's even miss alot of these rail shots. So, I know am not alone at this..

[DZ314]

Yep, and as you'll notice the more angle on the shot the more inside english you have to use.

[dags_lax]

Except for when the shot is close to a right angle the ball can be made rail first with inside english or ball and the rail at the same time with outside english and is in some instances ball then rail with outside english. It just depends on the position you need to play for.

[Black_Cat_5791]

Hey Skor where did you get that diagram, what else is avaliable.

That is a totally excellent graphic.

Thanks in advance.

Black Cat 8)

[skor]

I got it from a site that is no longer available.... 8)

[Black_Cat_5791]

Well that does me absolutely no good.......

What other images might you have personally?

Care to share with the rest of us?

Please!!!

Thanks :D

[mechmat]

Here's some videos for you....

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/index.html

[nathar]

That guy has some really good stuff on his website. But have you ever been in some of his forums? This guy is almost too smart. The way he and some of the posters on his forums describe things is almost insane. They are breaking down shots into trigonometric functions or something crazy like that. Some of these guys, I swear, you can almost see them in the middle of a match, breaking out a calculator and a scratch pad to run different formulas and equations before even taking a shot. Personally, I love the science involved in the game, but not so much as to go that far with it.

But yes, the videos can be very informative. 8)

[skor]

Although he is very knowledgable and his video may be of some help to understand what's going on, I can say that he shoots like an amateur, in his videos, his stance and grip is exactly "how NOT to do it"

I have seem his videos and I must say it's very informative than most of the instructional dvd's I have purchased. By breaking down segments of movements and shots, it's very helpful to understand how a shot is transformed and executed. :lol: It really shows a different aspect of the game.

Although he is very knowledgable and his video may be of some help to understand what's going on, I can say that he shoots like an amateur, in his videos, his stance and grip is exactly "how NOT to do it"

Skor, have you ever thought maybe he did that intentionally so that beginners and all level of players can see the basic fundamentals or mechanics of pool.

[skor]

Skor, have you ever thought maybe he did that intentionally so that beginners and all level of players can see the basic fundamentals or mechanics of pool.

Stance and grip are the basics of pool :!: :!: :!: :!:
so if a beginner will learn the fundamentals from this guy, he/she won't get too far.....

[skor]

in this link you, where talks about the grip, he stands like an old man with back problem..... not to mention the open bridge....
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV2-2.htm

in this next video, he talks about two technics when using a mechanical bridge, elbow out and elbow down, the elbow down is wrong!!!!!!!! never do it like that, you are limiting your stroke!!!! always use the elbow out, there is no second technic
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV2-3.htm

in the next video, he talks about the stroke, he's saying to spread the legs far apart !?!?!?!?! that's not how it should be done!!!!!!! again he looks like someone with a very bad back problem..... and again open brigde.....
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/normal_videos/NV2-5.htm

[dags_lax]

he stands like an old man with back problem

For a moment there I thought you were talking about me but this guy is much younger.

[skor]

I kinda felt that you would have something to say about that.....
I did not mean to ofend anyone I was just trying to show that his basics are way off.....
He has a lot of knowledge and the high speed videos of what happens on the table are priceless but if you want to learn how to play the game then I suggest that you look elsewhere

I kinda felt that you would have something to say about that.....
I did not mean to ofend anyone I was just trying to show that his basics are way off.....
He has a lot of knowledge and the high speed videos of what happens on the table are priceless but if you want to learn how to play the game then I suggest that you look elsewhere

How are his basics way off? Can you elaborate on it? Only because he is tall and look kinda akward for him to be in a certain pool position..I can't see him being in anyway his form to be way off. So if you can share your expertise with us would be great. Not that I'm trying to offend you but just think it's interesting to discuss these matters in this type of forum. :P

[skor]

Well...
A. your legs should be spread as wide as your shoulders, not as if you're having a baby.
B. your body should form a 45 degrees angle with your cue.
If you apply these two "rules" then your stance will be solid as a rock :!:
I'm 6ft. high and a bit over weight, if I can do it so he could do it just as well, have you ever seen John Horsfall, he is taller then me at least by a head and still he has a good stance (was a snooker player)




C. As for the bridge hand, there are several bridges but when you teach some one then you should use a close bridge as much as possible, students have a behavior of "monkey see, monkey do", they see what the teacher is doing and they try to copy him.

[skor]

As for the mechanical bridge, just as I wrote before there is no second technic, the "elbow out" allow you to form the 90 degrees angle between your arm and the fore arm and will allow you to a better follow through and still keeping the cue as leveled as possible.

[mechmat]

I picked up the book he wrote that goes with that website at the library, and I noticed a lot of the same things skor did. There were quite a few instances where his advice was directly contrary to the advice of instructors I would consider to be better than him, that seem to stem from his rather unorthodox style. Also, in most of his mechanical advice (stance, bridge, grip, etc) he was pretty vague as if he really didn't have a preference or didn't know which was better. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it seemed kind of strange as most instructors seem pretty adament about one style or another.

It's been awhile since I read the book so I can't remember a lot of the specifics, but I remember his advice about breaking stance to be wrong. He advised people to 'bend your kness LESS during the break.' Well, if you squat down like you're sitting on the pot like he does when he shoots, then yes, straightening the knees might be a good idea. But if you have a traditional pool or snooker stance where your knees (especially your back knee) are already mostly of completely straight, then all you can do is lock your knees, which is not a good idea. If anything the average person should bend their knees more during the break to help keep you balanced if you have a forward push in your break. He didn't mention that though.

Anyway, I like his videos and think they're interesting and could possibly be helpful to some people, but if someone's looking for somewhere to learn proper mechanics and techniques, I suggest looking elsewhere.

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[audiopro]

I agree with skor. A wider stance will generally be more stable. Think of a tripod. If it were to bend it's joints to create a lower stance, then it would be more narrow, thus easier to push over. If it instead spread it's legs further apart, it would be more stable.

The issue of being comfortable comes into play though. If you are not flexible, or have bad joints, it can become somewhat irritating.

So you have to find a happy medium.

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[mechmat]

[quote=audiopro]The video he saw was the guy standing kind of wide stance when he was showing how to power break.

I don't know if you read my post or not, but he actually recommends in his book to bend your legs less during the break stroke, so during normal shots he squats down even more and has his legs very far apart. And he does spefically say to spread your legs wider than shoulder width. I haven't watched all his videos, but in the pictures in his book his right foot is actually on the right side of the cue in his normal stance.

Whether or not he has good mechanics is only an issue because he is trying to teach others to play properly, and much of his advice and techniques are not appropriate for a player with a more traditional playing style.