Was all set to buy McDermott... but...

I have a question on the standard joint type. I thought I read (cannot recall where) that the McDermott has wood-to-wood joint (I knew that already), but that the joint has no metal insert in the shaft. I had assumed it had an insert... never saw one in person.

Viking offers a similar joint called Joint #4 (http://www.vikingcue.com/pages/cues/joints.html).

My current cue is a plain 2-piece maple with brass pin and bras insert.

Isn't there a real danger of stripping the "wood" threads in the McDermott shaft, or at least wearing them out over time?

Thanks.

[spartan]

it dosent matter how well its taken care off if you have a joint that screws right into the wood it will wear out. it can take a year or 30 years, i have seen the 3/8-10 pin wear out more than the radial pin but with the radial pin it can "bite" the wood and cross thread the threads in the shaft.

Spartan,

Thanks for the feedback. I did a little digging, and found the source of the "wood thread"... it was here on Seybert's forum:
http://www.seyberts.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2333&highlight=insert posted by Skor.

For me, it looks like McDermott is out... I cannot spend $200+ on a cue that has no insert in the shaft. Call me kooky.

Since Viking is spoken of very highly around this neck of the woods, I'll be going that route... McDermott has the nicer looking cues imo.

[Buckeye]

Call Seybert's to double-check before you totally rule out the cue that you wanted. They could probably hook you up with another joint regardless of what comes from the factory?!

[spartan]

honestly i woundnt worry that much about it. mcdermott has a great warranty and if there is a problem im sure they will take care of it. viking and mcdermott and both quality cues and you will be happy either way.

[skor]

Before I got the Predator BK cue for breaking I used my old Mcdermott (that used to be first playing cue), I've used it for a few years and had no problem with it, I don't like the feel of it as a playing cue but I wouldn't worry about it's durability, for me I rather have a cue that has a metal sleeve on the butt end of the joint and a phenolic/implex on the shaft end of the shaft and a metal insert in the shaft, it does not mean that it's better, it feels better for me. If you ever played with a McDermott that has that type of joint and you like it then you should go for it.

[audiopro]

I have a $3000 dollar cue that has no insert in the shaft. It is a radial pin joint. It is one of the best feeling cues I've used. As for wear, I would not worry about it at all. There is no reason such a joint shouldn't last 30+ years.

Buckeye:
I have not checked Seybert's joint option, but other authorized dealers charge about $40 for a SS collar... but they make no mention of adding an insert for that $40. It's a holiday, so I wont know for sure until Tuesday. And a quick-release option is $140!

Spartan:
I checked the McDermott site for its warranty... "McDermott, at its sole discretion, may void this warranty if there is evidence of abuse or mishandling." If the threads wear out, they can call it mishandling. Than I am screwed.

Skor:
I am used to a plain joint similar to Viking #5. I prefer the added "piece of mind" of the insert. As for phenolic/implex on both pieces, or paired with stainless steel, I have no preference yet.

Thanks for the feedback guys!!

[dags_lax]

I have several (2 Viking & 2 McDermott) 3/8 x 10 joint cues where the pin goes directly into the shaft. I also have a Viking sneaky pete with a wood to wood joint with a brass insert for a s/s pin. Given my choice I prefer the 3/8 x 10 pin into the wood of the shaft. One the McDermotts and one of the Vikings is over 20 years old and with a lot of use with no problems with the joints.

A lot of good players in my are still playing with their old C Series McDermotts with the pin into the wood joint (the C Series was discontinued 21 years ago). When it comes to durability I wouldn’t be concerned with a pin into the wood style joint.

[DZ314]

I do not have a problem with my McDermott joint and have zero concerns about the long term durability of a 3/8x10 into wood joint.

Turns out the upgrade to a quick release is $75 from Symbert's... not bad, but still high... it's only a joint for crying out loud.

Now I have a decision to make: either a McDermott Tournement cue and the upgraded joint @ $300, or a customized Viking in the (F80-F89 series) @ no more than $200.

[showboat]

McDermott does have Uni-loc joints as well. The 3/8 - 10 joint should last along time....Kirsenbrock uses a 3/8 - 11 joint that threads directly into wood, some of those are older than alot of McDermotts and are still just fine....

[DZ314]

I do not see the need to be concerned about the standard McDermott joint. They have always produced a quality product and they have the industry's best warranty.

Okay, suppose I went with McDermott and the standard joint. How careful do I have to be screw on the shaft?

We are all familiar with metal nuts and bolts. Somtimes the threads don't line up and you have to turn up to a turn in order for the bolt to bite the thread. No harm because both thread and bolt are metal. But with wood threads, I'd imagine it is a different story.

Oh, the Uni-lock is probably just as expensive as the quick-release. I did not ask about that option since I was not interested in it.

[audiopro]

You would have to be very drunk, and force it pretty hard, to mess them up.

[spartan]

i would go with the mcdermott. they make a great cue for the price and their warranty is second to none. when used in normal use there should be no problem with the threads for quite a few years if anything. i have seen people who have that joint and the radial pin and slam their cues in frustration. that bites the wood in the shaft making the bond weaker. when taken care of there id no reason the joint cant last a long time. it will wear but it has to wear alot in order for it not to function properly.

Well, if the threads do wear out, McDermott says that IS covered under warranty. But if "obvious cross-threading" was the reason for wear, then that won't be covered. That's understandable.

Guess McDermott is back in the running. Maybe I should have just kept quiet until I contacted McDermott first :)

Thanks for the support.

Well, if the threads do wear out, McDermott says that IS covered under warranty. But if "obvious cross-threading" was the reason for wear, then that won't be covered. That's understandable.

Guess McDermott is back in the running. Maybe I should have just kept quiet until I contacted McDermott first :)

Thanks for the support.

[skor]

It doesn't matter what cue you get as long as it has a Predator shaft to go with it :twisted:

[DZ314]

It doesn't matter what cue you get as long as it has a Predator shaft to go with it :twisted:

Hah, not. :wink:

I posted on the Viking cues part of this forum and now I suppose I should post here, in the proper forum. McD is broke and is not using the quality woods that it once did to make its cues. Shaft wood that comes in on Monday goes out the door on a cue on Friday. As for the Uni-loc joint they had on their cues for awhile they never invested in the proper equipment to install the joints correctly which led to a significant amount of cues with this joint seizing together or with the brass shaft insert coming out. I want to emphasize that the Uni-loc joint is not the problem but the way McD decided to install it on their cues that was the problem. Furthermore, do not believe the warranty, they will do whatever they can not to honor it. Buy a different cue and just save yourself the headache.

[skor]

How do you know all this ?

I posted on the Viking cues part of this forum and now I suppose I should post here, in the proper forum. McD is broke and is not using the quality woods that it once did to make its cues. Shaft wood that comes in on Monday goes out the door on a cue on Friday. As for the Uni-loc joint they had on their cues for awhile they never invested in the proper equipment to install the joints correctly which led to a significant amount of cues with this joint seizing together or with the brass shaft insert coming out. I want to emphasize that the Uni-loc joint is not the problem but the way McD decided to install it on their cues that was the problem. Furthermore, do not believe the warranty, they will do whatever they can not to honor it. Buy a different cue and just save yourself the headache.

I am with Skor on this... how do you know?

Wood in on Monday can easily and safely go out as a cue on Friday... the wood is dried for many months before coming in to be cut. Now if you are saying McDermott is cutting wood that is not properly dried, than I think he forums (this one and others) would be flooded with "Hey, my McDermott is warped" stories.

I posted on the Viking cues part of this forum and now I suppose I should post here, in the proper forum. McD is broke and is not using the quality woods that it once did to make its cues. Shaft wood that comes in on Monday goes out the door on a cue on Friday. As for the Uni-loc joint they had on their cues for awhile they never invested in the proper equipment to install the joints correctly which led to a significant amount of cues with this joint seizing together or with the brass shaft insert coming out. I want to emphasize that the Uni-loc joint is not the problem but the way McD decided to install it on their cues that was the problem. Furthermore, do not believe the warranty, they will do whatever they can not to honor it. Buy a different cue and just save yourself the headache.

I am with Skor on this... how do you know?

Wood in on Monday can easily and safely go out as a cue on Friday... the wood is dried for many months before coming in to be cut. Now if you are saying McDermott is cutting wood that is not properly dried, than I think he forums (this one and others) would be flooded with "Hey, my McDermott is warped" stories.

[showboat]

It doesn't matter what cue you get as long as it has a Predator shaft to go with it :twisted:

I've officially given up on Predator shafts....IMO they DO NOT spin the ball more, they DO NOT give more feel, they DO NOT work for me in any way....If you're just learning to play you probably won't know the difference between a good custom cue and a Predator...however I've been playing 25 years and just don't like them....I've played the last 8 months with my Predator...just to give it a full chance...and now it's for sale.....

[spartan]

i gave up on them as well. i did about 2 months ago. i now use a skip weston shaft on my old joss. i think they dont give good feel like a standard shaft does. i have no problem getting spin on the cueball without the predator. i think they are extremely overpriced for what they are. (not using high quality wood). Im not saying they are hype just that they arent as great as some people think. JMHO FWIW.

[audiopro]

No matter the opinion of feel, deflection compensation feel, whatever.. Fact is, you CAN get more spin with a Predator cue, and there IS less deflection..

I just don't use em because I don't wanna relearn the compensation variables again.. But the fact remains, you can get more spin and less deflection..

If you are a newb to playing pool, a Predator would be an absolute positive!

[skor]

To each their own..... :twisted:
As for myself, no matter what cue I'll have, it will always have a 314 shaft on it, I've been playing with a predator cue and shaft for 7 years and I can tell you that you can do more with it then with any other shaft, it does more with less effort, there are many features to the predator shaft, not just reducing cue ball deflection, same that you can get more spin with it, you can get a lot more action with it then with other shafts.
Most of us on this board are amateurs, we do not know everything and we don't have the stroke that pro's do, some of you have taken pool lessons and some of you still do, which is great, but how many of you took lessons on how to use the predator shaft and how to benefit the max. from it :?: let me guess... none of you did.
I have a freind who was a touring pro, he's been helping my game and showed me things about predator that you don't see in the adds because it's not easy to past them with words, it easier to show it on the table.
What you're doing is like buying a Ferrari but you only drive it 30mph to do shopping.
I suggest that if you realy want to know how to use your predator then you should take a lesson or two from a pro that uses a predator, but only do that after you gain a good stroke.

[spartan]

i dont care for predator that much with the exception of my BK. i am quite happy with the shaft skip weston made for me a couple months back. does it deflect more? yes. does the predator put more spin on the cueball? yes. does it hit as good or feel as good as a maple shaft? certainly not IMO. also, they get dirtier quicker, ding easier, and if you need a ferrule replacement it takes a long time. (couple months.) my friends BK ferrule cracked and it took them 2 months to get it back to him. im sorry but that is unnaceptable. that isnt very good customer service. JMHO FWIW.

[dags_lax]

I have had three 314 shafts, one on a Predator cue (duh), one for my Schon and one for my Jackson. And to be honest I wasn't overly impressed with any of them. I felt my game was slightly better with my Schon and Jackson with the stock shafts. And by slightly I mean something that may not have been noticeable on any given night but over the course of a league season it was apparent.

But that was up until to six weeks ago when Seybert's matched a Z Shaft to one of my Novas. I have got to say that I am very impressed and I haven’t even played with it that much yet.. The Z Shaft with a stiff hit combined with the advantages smaller diameter tip and Predator technology makes this shaft a winner in my book.

Last year I had a Sharpshooter Shaft matched to that same Nova and was very happy with it. In fact, in my 27 years of league play I had my best year ever using that shaft. Now with this Z Shaft I am expecting an even better season this year.

The people that run this site have always given me the best service possible, and have always been honest. Therefore, I ask them to tell all of you if what I say about McD is true regarding their opening their own website to undercut dealers, the problems with delivery times and their general reputation within the billiards industry as it pertains to wholesale customers such as Seyberts. I know they have a significant investment in McDermott at this point (stock on hand) and that it would hurt their business to tell the truth about McD, but McD as a company has been allowed to slide to long and I believe it is time to tell the billiards community at large the truth so that when they put their hard earned money down to invest in a cue they get the best return for their investment.

[showboat]

It does seem they have gotten real gimicky with there style of cues they are offering....however I don't think the quality is going downhill....Mainly because they're made by chimpanzees sitting in front of CNC machines....the materials might not be up to par because they have to use so much they can't be as picky as a custom cuemaker would be....

[txplshrk]

I would like to know where the guy that is bashing McDermott is getting his info? Robin Adair down here in Corpus Christi, TX knows the owners personally. This guy swears by McDermott and Vicking for the cost and quaility. I have never known this man to BS me one bit. If it is good quality he will tell you. He will also tell you which $200 cues play as well as some $1500 cues. True each cue only shoots as good as the person shooting with it. The thing is this, if you like it, it looks good, shoots like you want it too, and is in your price range who cares who made it? I will say this, I have been sold on McDermott about 10 years now, and I have purchased 5 different cues from them. The cheapest one being the Genuine Series that they don't even make anymore. If the Genuine Series can sell me on a manufacturer, then I say that is awesome. That stick barely even cost me $100 and it's quality is every bit as good as the $300 jump break cue I just got from them. I wouldn't listen to all that mumbo jumbo about the quality being crap, unless you have the facts to back it. Do you know someone working at McDermott? Do you know the owners? Robin Adiar knows the owners and goes to their warehouse to pick up his cues personally, and if they were junk he would flat out tell you. The only thing I will say about a McDermott or a Vicking verses a custom cue is this. They are like cars comming off an assembly line because they make so many per day. So every once in a while I could see a bad one comming off the line. That is just something that happens. Everyone that I know sending their cue into McDermott for warranty work has been pleased. (Although I only know of two people sending them in.) So I don't think anyone has any worries about buying from McDermott. And that thing about the Uni-Locks not lining up correctly? Well Robin Adair says he hasn't seen that yet, and he has sold thosands of McDermotts!!!

[txplshrk]

Thanks for the posts guys.

Just want to add a bit from the inside, as I have been with McDermott for nearly 5 years, and have watched several quality improvements made in that short amount of time. Also, and more importantly, I know that the fine craftsmen and women how make the cues have been here for a long time...Each having a deep passion for our/their cues.

Loren, our shipping manager, and final quality control checkpoint person, has been here 15 years.

Two people responsible for our inlays being cut correctly have been here a combined 20 years (13 & 7) Anthony & Ron

Kelly, who hand applies all our stains, has been here for 14 years now.

(yes I'm reading this off our Anniversary HR list Smile

Chris has been here 13 years, and is responsible for the finish on our cues.

Jeff our repair guy...and does leather wraps, has been here 17 years.

Gary 15 (butt assembly), Bruce 13 (shafts and quality conrtol), Gordie 12 (maintenance, butt assembly you name it), Jess 14 (sanding, finishing), Jan 11 (wraps, final assembly), Jodi (8 years, final assembly).

All led by our production manager, Larry Liebl, who has been here since McDermott was founded in 1975.

As you see...styles may change, but actual quality, in my opinion, keeps improving year after year.

I would invite the original poster (and anyone else for that matter) to take a look at our new 2003 Series. Much more traditional designs.

Thanks, Steve

_________________
Steve Suhm
McDermott Cue
ssuhm@mcdermottcue.com
www.mcdermottcue.com

[JustMe]

I have owned my McDermott cue for quite a while. It responds to my stroke quite nicely. I feel the fact that the threads screw directly into wood is part of the reason why the cue feels the way it does. If you tend to play shots firmly most of the time, a heavy uniloc joint might not be a bad idea. As for me, I have never felt a cue with one of these joints hit like mine. My threads are safe. However, if I knew my shaft would only last 4 years, I'd still choose it! Just my two cents...

[Codi]

I have owned my McDermott MG-03 cue for about a year and a half and its been a good investment. When I orderd it I requested a 12.75mm shaft with a Talisman WB medium tip. So far its proved to be quite durable. I haven't had any problems with any part of the cue. One of my concerns was with the cue warping over time on the way to and from the pool halls, because I live in some rough areas as far as weather goes. From subzero cold to high humidity tropics, and a lot of table time my cue has held up well.