The Final Stroke...

I always wondered do you have to excellerate through the cueball on your final stroke passed the cueball or do you try to keep it the same speed until your arm can not go any further? Thx for any help.


Oh and i was also wondering do you have to keep your wrist straight with your arm that is moving like a pendulum? or can u bend it a bit towards your body?

Ive already looked at easypooltoturs site and it doesnt really tell you much about the speed and etc.. on the final stroke through the cueball. Like most things say be smooth....Now I could easily do a Smooth excelleration through the cueball or i could do an easy smooth same speed through the cueball. Just wondering since the stroke is the most important thing of the game :D

[DEATHTRON]

My advice, and most people wont like it, but try both, and whatever feels comfortable and puts the balls in for you is what i would use.

Zach

[New Kid In The Hall]

You ABSOLUTELY accelerate through the stroke regardless of whether the stroke is a slower or faster stroke. Just as in golf, the club must be accelerating at impact, same in pool. The physics of what happens with the tip and the ball get all messed up and inconsistent when you do not accelerate.

If you watch most amatuer women play pool, they are notorious for that constant speed stroke. Not a knock on women, they just seem to gravitate toward that kind of stroke. The tip will not do its job properly with respect to contact time on the ball unless the cue is accelerating.

[sonnic]

stay straight and definatly accelerate.

[mpabon]

TIP:
What i focus on my stroke (after reading books)
That has greatly improve my Game:

1. lose grip

(check my feeling the weight of the cue on fingers)
if not feel weight of cue - than your grip is too is not lose

2. From observing good players and practice
Notice that the grip wrist should be lose
(think of it as a swivel - as the cue moves forward - let the wrist move (so that it maintains the cue traveling as level as possible)

3. before shot - determine - that you will stay down after shot.

4. follow tru on stroke - let cue stop on its own.

5. never think of using force for cue movement, think the force of the stroke should come from the weight of the cue.

6. Keep cue stroke as level as possible.
(It helps when I visualize the cue level with table top - tru whole stroke.

###########
This is my mental check on every shot (well I am tring to get there)

- lock
(my mental reminder to lock Elbo - only move lower arm on stroke.

- down (get down as much as possible on shot)

- Straight Back (cue movement on stroke )

- Straight Forward (cue movement on stroke )

- Down (reminder stay down after Stroke)

- Lose grip (check with cue weight feel - mentioned above)

- Cue Weight ( use only cue weight to generate cue movement)



6. Think basic on stroke - One of the main basic is to move the cue straight back and straight forward

7.

[mpabon]

(press submit - by accident)

7. Level Cue (tru stroke keep cue as level as possible)

8. Solid Stance (if not get up and re-stance)

9. see it (visualize the cue / object contact point - needed to pocket the object

10. see it (visualize - my stance , my stroke, staying down)

11. think of (visualize) my favorite - pro stance / stroke

12. visualize entire shot , and stroke/ speed needed on shot, this include cue ball leave for next shot)


(an important item left out - is that before you get down on shot - visualize entire shot , and stroke/ speed needed on shot, this include
cue ball leave for next shot)

(also that on cue/cue hall contact the lower arm (grip) should be straight pointing toward the floor) - start practice stroke with tip close to cue - at this point move grip hand so that the lower arm is straight pointing to the floor) - Then this way on contact it will be pointing straight to the floor.


There was an item on a pool mag - discussing the 2 primary strokes
1. pendulum (elbow is locked, and shoulder is locked) - cue on stroke moves - butt Up on back stroke , level on cue contact - and butt up again after cue contact.
(so the tip of cue is pointing down toward the table top - at end of stroke.

2. piston (I believe the article indicated that the shoulder drops - on cue/cue ball impact) (do not have mag article to confirm)
on this type of stroke - the cue start level and tru out the stroke remains level(hence name piston)

I personaly - believe I am more towards a pendulum.
(since - i find myself focusing on lock elbow and never thinking of dropping elbow)

(Just wanted to share tips on what has improved my game this Year)
(which was mainly improved by focusing on my stroke basics)

Does anyone have any other stroke tips ?
- that they have found effective (improve shot making consistancy, accuracy)

Or any other comments on the diff between the 2 types of strokes.

(my observasion - when looking at the Pros - on ESPN - is that the ladies - seem to use the pendulum - and men use the piston.
(mainly I see females locking elbow on stroke (especialy on critica shots) , and I see men often droping elbow on stroke) The article did indicate that sometimes players use both - depending on the type of shot.

Thanks
mpabon

[skor]

5. never think of using force for cue movement, think the force of the stroke should come from the weight of the cue.


You should realy stop doing so much reading !!!
the statement above is wrong !!!!
First you have to understand the difference between hitting the ball and stroking the ball, The distance that the cue ball will travel is a direct factor of one thing and it's the speed of the cue as you contact the cue ball (the follow through is to make sure that you keep that speed and not slow it down as you get closer to the contact), it is easier to get more speed with a LIGHT cue (for that reason, most pro use an 18 ounce break cue).
try this at home:
hold a 1 pound weight in your hand and try to wave fast, now try it with a 5 pounds weight, Was it easier to wave your hand with the lighter weight or the heavier one ??
It is easier to cause the cue ball to gain distance and speed with a lighter cue, period!!!!

[mpabon]

Maybe my comment was not clear - what I was trying to state was that the force (speed -your term) should not be created by arm muscle but instead (as you indicated , by the speed of stroke)

thanks,
mpabon

[mechmat]

5. never think of using force for cue movement, think the force of the stroke should come from the weight of the cue.


You should realy stop doing so much reading !!!
the statement above is wrong !!!!

Geesh, why do people get so testy in these forums? I think he made it pretty clear that you should THINK of the speed coming from the weight of the cue. A lot of times what your mind thinks you are doing and what your body is actually doing are 2 different thinks. Any good golf pro will tell you that when you fix a lifelong slicers swing, he'll feel like he's hooking the crap out of it when he swings.

Show some respect, I don't see your Phd in physics anywhere either.

[audiopro]

I think that was just Skor's way of strongly disagreeing... Don't think any disrespect was meant, that's not like Skor... I did not read it as such.. Remember, we have people from all over the world participating here. Things that may sound harsh to one person, may not to that originator or others...

[skor]

well, to start with, I did not mean to sound so harsh or anything and if I did then I'm sorry :)

In billiard, just like in most other areas in life the basics are the most importent thing to master in order to advance to a higher level.
The basic of billiards are:
1. stance
2. grip
3. aim
4. stroke
Alot of people enter to this (and other) forum to learn, and although I'm not a pro player, I do know what I'm talking about, (I also give lessons). I think that over the last year or so that I've been posting on this forum I gave out alot of good tips and advises that will cost a lot of money to get them from an instructor, I do it because of my passion for this sport and desire to promote it world wide.
When I see something that is wrong I feel the need to make sure that people will notice that it's wrong and that hopefully will not implement it in their game.
The cue (weight or mass of it) does not generate speed, it is only a tool to transfer the speed of the arm movement to the cue ball.
Thinking (or feeling as if) the speed comes from the weight of the cue, may confuse many new players and will make them buy a heavy cue that could very wrong for them, the weights drill that I posted is to show that if you want to generate speed, it will be easier (not imposible) with a light cue.
Just imagin the idea of a player with small and week arms learning here that if he/she gets a heavy cue, they will have more speed or a more powerful break, while the truth is quite the opposite, I would hate to see this sport lose a player just because they think that they can't play when in reality they were just using a cue that is wrong for them.
mpabon understood that his comment was not that clear, I hope that this will clear up mine.

BTW, I never met a physics professor that could beat me in a game of 9 ball :)

[mechmat]

That's cool. I can certainly appreciate a passion for the game, and if I interpreted that as something else then I should be the one apologizing. There are a lot of know-it-all people on these types of forums, and whenever I see someone declare something 'wrong' that isn't necessarily untrue it tends to strike a nerve with me. And there's certainly a lot of information that can be learned from pool books and videos, but I don't know if you were totally serious about that.

I agree that a lighter cue is better for the break, but do you feel that a beginner would learn a better stroke with a lighter cue? I've been using a heavy cue (mainly 21 oz but currently use a 20oz) since I was built like a scrawny little girl, and anyone who's played me will tell you that the strongest part of my game is probably my stroke. Also, I've read in several sources that generally a heavier cue promotes a better stroke while a lighter cue promotes better feel.

I can't think of any Physics professors that could beat you, but I know a mechanical engineer that would give you a run for your money ;)

[skor]

I would suggest to a beginner to use a 19 ounce cue and after awhile to start experimenting with different weights and balance.
there is no absolute "right" here, and you got to go with what is best for you, Mika Immonen just recently moved from a 19 ounce cue to a 19.5 ounce cue with a soft tip, and he's an ex world champion, not a beginner :)
I'm very careful when using the word "wrong", because there are at least 2 ways to accomplish things, if would set up a shot and say that to get to position, you would use draw, I'll probably show you that you can get to the same position with follow, when both option are available, you got to go with what you feel more comfortable and not with what another player says that is right. even with the basics, there are more then one way, you got open bridge and close bridge, you got the common "pool" stance and you got the common snooker stance (let's see someone tells Alison Fisher that she doesn't stand right :) )
The weight of the cue promotes feel, if a player feels that a cue promotes a better stroke, it's still just a feeling, unless you got some kind of a sping with a moving part inside the cue, the cue can not promote your stroke, only your arm, with a lot of practice :)