Practicing from just playing

[sonnic]

I know their is a lot of people who don't have access to a table at home and so they can only practice playing at a local bar or friends house. I am fortunate enough to have a table but what id like to address is throwing the balls on the table and running them out is a good thing to practice. I have heard people say that you shouldn't do that and you should always rack up the balls even if its 3 or 4. I think that randomly throwing the balls on the table will help with running out. and is a good thing to do. Now obviously the reason why this isn't a good idea is you neglect maybe the most important shot in the game (the break) and if you don't practice it how can you be any good at it. That is one thing and I do encourage everyone to practice there break but what i like to do is pick the balls out and spread them out where their is nothing in the way and all balls can be pocketed. and proceed to run out. If you can run out an easy table this will help you when the pressure is on and all you need is 6 or 7 balls that are in the open to run out. If you can run 7 balls you will beat most players. I cannot tell you how many times i have had an easy table to run and leave myself bad on a shot and blow the whole game. So i want to start a topic about this and the best way to practice running out. I Figure that it is the most important aspect in pool. The break may be the most important shot. But after a great break if you dont run out then it was all for nothing. OPINIONS EVERYONE???

Sonnic

[skor]

I like to throw all 15 balls on the table, take a ball in hand and I will try to pocket all the balls with no order or picking a group of balls, I dod that before a tournament or league, it gives me a good practice in position play, pocketing balls and to adjust my eyes to the table light.
In practice I rack a 9ball rack, break and then take a ball in hand and try to run the rack, this is a good practice for breaking, right cue ball in hand positioning and all of the above, if I miss I stop and rerack.
if you can't never run a 9ball rack out, start with 3 balls and work your way up to 4,6 and 9 balls.
beside that I would set up shots in witch I will place a second object ball in different positions on the table and will do the same shot trying to get to the second object ball where ever it's on the table.
and I will work on cut shots where I will place an OB on the same spot and move the cue ball along a line half a diamond after every time I'll make the ball and go back half a diamond if I miss it.

[skor]

One more practice I like to do is to break a 9ball rack and play safties and try to get out and hook my self again, I know it sound a bit stupid but belive me, I rarely give balls in hand in play, I get a lot of wins on the 3 fouls rule (this will throw your opponent of his game if you'll do that in the first rack :) )

p.s: jumping in NOT allowed in this practice

[audiopro]

I do the same, partly because my table at home will never rack tightly. The cloth is old, and really beat up. So when playing at home I do typically just throw the balls out and go. I flip flop my rules of play. For a few racks I may play ball in hand equalling, throwing the cue ball and letting it roll. where it lands, I go from. At other times we all know, that being able to decide where to take a ball in hand is good also. So I will do that for a time as well.

I also like to play safes on myself. Lets see just how well I can roll this ball and hide. That being done, can I get out of it? If so, what did I miss, what could I have done differently? I dont just try to pocket all my balls in a run out all the time. This is much easier to me than leaving a good safe when you need to. And of course way easier than getting yourself out of a good safe. So running out while practicing may be fun, but maybe everyone should look at the other aspects too. Switch it up a bit...

[KGeeEd]

I found out that I play the way that I practice.

I practice a variation of 26 different shots. When that shot comes up in a game it is automatic. No thinking, no judgement, no negative thoughts. Shoot and make it.

When you do drills that is what you are basically doing. Practicing the shot and position. Cue ball control. Quality is better than quantity. You do not want to practice your mistakes.

Throwing a few balls on the table and taking ball in hand for a run out is a good practice to get used to game conditions but why not break them if you are practicing. This gives a good random spred. When walking by my table I will throw a few balls on it and run them off. I feel that this is like comming unto the table cold. If you are placing balls you are basically doing a drill.

I usually do not "play" a game by myself until I am done practicing my shots, drills and workouts, then I will only do about 3 racks.

This works for me. Am I right? Maybe not. I am not on ESPN. I guess you need to do what ever keeps you motivated and entertained. I don't think there is a one fit all routine. It does help to get differnent ideas and adopt what is best for you.

[audiopro]

This works for me. Am I right? Maybe not. I am not on ESPN. I guess you need to do what ever keeps you motivated and entertained. I don't think there is a one fit all routine. It does help to get differnent ideas and adopt what is best for you.

If you were dags you would already know you were NOT right, because your wife said so!

I agree though, throwing balls on a table will never replace racking and breaking. The spread is random, but created from that which normally starts a game. Our throwing balls on a table will not give the same set of random possible results.

[DZ314]

Just play around with different methods. Rack and break, try to run out; throw them out there and try to run out; try to safety yourself, etc. Just KISS and have fun! ;)

[skor]

I think that when you start to your practice and you not wormed up yet, you'll never get a good break, but if you throw the balls on the table and play 2 or 3 racks to worm up your aim and stroke then you are ready to break, you can see it happen when you play your friends or league, your break will improve atfer a few racks, so why waist energy on breaking when you are not realy ready for them ?

just the way I see it :)

[KGeeEd]

[quote="skor"]so why waist energy on breaking when you are not realy ready for them ?

quote]
Skor

I agree. Why practice breaking if you never get a chance to break. Usually it is winner breaks. So I practice breaking just to see what it is like. Plus it gives me more practice racking. LOL

[DZ314]

LOL, no way do you rack that often KGeeEd. :lol:

[dags_lax]

As a rule I don't practice the breaks. This is a shot that I get enough of in real games. I feel my practice time is better spent doing drills than racking. Now for the exceptions, when replacing break cue tip I will put some time in to get used to the new feel. The other exception is the safe break for eight ball. That I do practice because it is fairly difficult and the situations that require it rarely come up.

As for just throwing the balls out on the table and shooting them off, or playing yourself, that is how I will usually finish off a practice session, but only for a couple of sets. I find that, for me, after a while of just hitting balls around that I loose my focus and bad habits start creeping back into my game. Once I get to that point any more "just hitting the balls" is reinforcing the negatives.

[KGeeEd]

I really started to think about the term that the break is the most important shot. Think about it for a while. Who says this and where did it come from? Answer below

Answer: The makers of break cues. Look at their web sites or advertisements. It than became a catch or buzz word.

Now think about this. If you don't break than this means that you have missed out on the most important shot. Are all of the other shots are cannon fodder? In the match between Archer and Reyes that Capelle has on DVD there are 3 breaks and runouts and twice the 9 is made on the break in a match that cosisted of 21 games. So 5 games out of 21 were won by the break shot. Actually only 2 were won by the break shot. The other three helped the player stay at the table. We are talking about 2 of the best players in the world. Has anyone ever heard one of these players say I would have lost this match if I did not have this break cue? One thing in defense though. The announcer does say that Reyes is not a great nine ball player because of his weak break.

Now the most important shot during this match. Depends on who you talk to. Archer may say a safety, Reyes may say a shot he missed. Break shots need to be practiced but the results cannot be predicted like a straight in shot. These players break from the same spot, the balls are racked with the Sardo Rack and everthing is the same except that strange ball that kicks the cueball into the pocket or the one that somehow always manages to tie up the one ball.

I know how to solve this. Buy a break cue. None of these things will ever happen on the most important shot with "MY" break cue. Better aim more power, a joint that put more power into the shot etc. If the aim is better than I should use this cue as my main cue. What does it have a laser sight?

I have a BK. I am not bitter nor do I have anything against this cue. It saves my playing cue from getting banged up and keeps splinters out of my fingers but it is not the magic wand. I do practice breaking but the results are not consistance. Try tracking the balls and see if they always end up in the same place. No way. I bet if they were to use Iron Mike, a Sardo Rack and set up a fixture to make sure that everything was exactly the same the results would be different on every break.

Breaking is something that is part of the game and should be practiced but I do not make it my main focal point during pratice session.

[skor]

KGeeEd,
The break might not be the most important shot but it's quite important, with a good break you can either run out or play a good safe, a good break will leave no cluster and will make the rack easier.
The reason that there not two identical breaks is not the rack the cue ball or the break cue, it's you the human factor, you can not hit the cue ball with the same angle, speed, spin and aim.
The better you get the closer you'll get to it but you'll never get to two identical breaks.
A few months ago Efern played Earl Strikland in Abu-Dabi, he beat him, if I remember it right 12-0, he ran 8 racks in a raw and according to Earl the rack spread on each time the same way and it looked like Efren played the same rack 8 times.

[sonnic]

well said Kgreed. I dont really think the break is the most important shot in a game but it is very important. as is sinking the 8 & 9 balls. I think the most important shot is the one your shooting. Of course plan the table out but once you've done that you're last thoughts must be all about making this important shot. Lets face it if you don't make the ball your shooting at you will give your opponent a great chance to win. 1 think at a time...

hey dags just curious how do you hit your "SAFE" 8 ball break?

[dags_lax]

hey dags just curious how do you hit your "SAFE" 8 ball break?

From the side, use a second ball hit. The cue ball should go off the side rail to the end rail. In our rules for a legal break you must either pocket an object ball or drive four balls to the rail. Failure to do so gives your opponent the option of taking the table as it lays or having to rerack and giving your opponent the break. The key is to hit the rack to hit the rack hard enough but not to hard. You won’t always deny your opponent a shot but hopefully the run out will be extremely difficult.

In our leagues we play a point system, 10 points for a win and the looser gets one point for each ball of his group that has been pocketed. The league I play in has a lot talented players so table runs are not uncommon so there are a lot of 10-0 or 10-1 scores.

An example of when a safe break might be used is when your team is up by 18 points with two games to go so your final two players need only to pocket three balls to win the match. The opponents final two players are good players. You have the break both games. If you break, get a good spread on the rack, and don't make a ball there is a good chance you can be run out on. And this can happen two (or more) games in a row. It has happened to us, and we have done it to other teams.

[skor]

In APA rules (if they didn't change them, It's been a few years since I played apa) you can it the second ball as well and you have to pocket a ball or drive 4 ball to the rail but it also say that you MUST break as hard as you can

[audiopro]

My APA division you have to hit the head ball first, and the 1 ball is supposed to be the head ball. However the 1 ball as head is a local rule. And yes, you have to hit the rail with 4 balls, or pocket.

[dags_lax]

BCA RULES

4.5 LEGAL BREAK SHOT
(Defined) To execute a legal break, the breaker (with the cue ball behind the head string) must either (1) pocket a ball, or (2) drive at least four numbered balls to the rail. When the breaker fails to make a legal break, it is a foul, and the incoming player has the option of (1) accepting the table in position and shooting, or (2) having the balls re-racked and having the option of shooting the opening break or allowing the offending player to re-break.

[KGeeEd]

hey dags just curious how do you hit your "SAFE" 8 ball break?

From the side, use a second ball hit. The cue ball should go off the side rail to the end rail. In our rules for a legal break you must either pocket an object ball or drive four balls to the rail. Failure to do so gives your opponent the option of taking the table as it lays or having to rerack and giving your opponent the break. The key is to hit the rack to hit the rack hard enough but not to hard. You won’t always deny your opponent a shot but hopefully the run out will be extremely difficult.

In our leagues we play a point system, 10 points for a win and the looser gets one point for each ball of his group that has been pocketed. The league I play in has a lot talented players so table runs are not uncommon so there are a lot of 10-0 or 10-1 scores.

An example of when a safe break might be used is when your team is up by 18 points with two games to go so your final two players need only to pocket three balls to win the match. The opponents final two players are good players. You have the break both games. If you break, get a good spread on the rack, and don't make a ball there is a good chance you can be run out on. And this can happen two (or more) games in a row. It has happened to us, and we have done it to other teams.

That sounds like a great league. You get more points for running balls when there are a lot of opponent balls left. This take more skill than running a table when the opponent only has one ball left. It also seems to award the loser for pocketing some balls.

What league is this?

[dags_lax]

There are both VNEA leagues and BCA leagues in town. The same charter holder (vending company) sponsor both leagues. The rules are almost identical for both. Many of the top players pushed for getting a BCA league(s) in town because there is more money big money tournaments out there for BCA sanctioned players. And despite the popularity of VNEA and APA these guys are arena football while BCA is the big time, the NFL of billiards.

As far as scoring goes I liked the system we had 20 or 25 years ago when you got two points for the win and one point for each ball your opponent had left on the table. When figuring individual averages I feel this is a more accurate indicator of a players skill. You are not penalized when so much when your opponent runs out from the break but you are rewarded handsomely when you run out.

I've been pushing for a long time for a net point system of scoring that takes into account points won as well as points lost but it is a loosing battle. My preferred method of scoring would result in some players and teams having negative averages so that might have an adverse affect on players egos so I doubt if it will ever be adopted.

This is my third try posting this reply. I seem to be having some trouble here. Come tomorrow I hope it doesn't show up three times.