Need Help on Backspin, positioning.

[Gatz]

I am trying to find a book, that has a great deal of information on bottom left, right, and middle draw positioning. Reason being is i have my follow, left, right, middle left, right positions down pat, i know where the cueball will go etc.. at all times on all shots.

I know how to do backspin, I just can never remember where the CB will go after say using bottom left on a angle shot etc... things like that.

Anyways if any1 knows of a good book that explains some of it or has some illistrations that would be great. I can't get any movies, cuz there so hard to find and i dont have Credit card so i can not order online. I have Robert byerns "350 moves every player should know" book and it helped alittle especially on frozen Object balls, and what to do with them.

[audiopro]

Draw is a tough one. It is a lot harder to control as opposed to follow. You must hit the ball with more force to draw the same distance than you would to follow. Also it varies from table to table because of felt differences. Honestly I think the best way to get your draw positioning right is to practice. If you got the basics down, hit a table and just try some draw shots. In time you will get a better idea of the subtle table differences, and you will become more precise with draw.

However there are some neat reactions the cue ball can have when using draw. Such as what the cue ball will do after hitting a rail with different side spin along with the draw. Again I would say experiment with it a little.

I personally dont have any book suggestions, but someone else likely will. Or maybe a video...

[Gatz]

Well most of the level 6 to 7 level players here in Toronto, all mostly use backspin, to position there balls for next shot, and i know why it makes the ball move in any direction back a bit for the next easiest shot, all there shots are done with ease. Now i just wanna learn and get a good idea on how to use what buttom english on what shot so i can do that kind of positioning aswell instead of using stop shots or follow off rail shots etc...

[Gatz]

I know your going to say practice blah blah blah, and it does. But like i already said i know how to put backspin and english together i just don't know wich one to use when and where the ob will go. it gets confusing. So thats why i was looking for a book or vid that would help mainly a book cuz vid would be hard for me to get.

[CJK]

Believe it or not, The Complete Idiot's Guide to Pool and Billiards, while not a great book overall, does a good job of explaining draw, follow, English, and how to combine them and the effects of each on cue ball positioning.

[Gatz]

Thanks CJ :D

[sonnic]

99 critical shots in pool... Greatest book ever writen for someone who has a decent handle on the basics. Altheough it does do through the basics too. But for the player who is good but wants to get really good the book is priceless

[New Kid In The Hall]

I disagree with "99 Critical Shots" being the best. I think Martin's diagrams for the one rail position shots are off based on where he shows the cue ball ending up with various English.

I prefer Phil Capelle's "Play Your Best Pool". He has exhaustive sections on one rail shape, two rail shape, and other multi-rail shape.

I used to think if I could have 1 book it would have been Byrne's New Standard Book of Pool and Billiards....after getting Capelle's book, his is my goto if I could only pick one.

One other thing, audiopro, is right. Draw is much harder to master than follow when precision counts, BUT, you also have to learn what can and can't be done for position from various places and angles. Maybe that is your problem...could you be trying to get somewhere that really isn't practical?

[dags_lax]

A precision draw shot is indeed a thing of beauty to behold.

Personally given the choice when needing to get a real precise leave I would rather use follow when possible to get my shape. I feel more comfortable having the cue ball go two rails and traveling a total of eight feet to get to a spot rather than drawing back two feet to get to the same spot. In fact when I am sizing up players, one thing I watch for is shot selection when it comes to draw verses follow. Style points count for sh#t. Bangers like to draw while the good players know speed and angles.

Now with all that being said you still will not get very far with your game if you can’t control your backspin. In too many instances, if you are going to get out, draw is what the lay of the table requires.

[New Kid In The Hall]

To be a complete player, you need to realize there is always more than one way to get to most places on the table. Capelle is even great to point on on many of the diagram shots that you can do it this way if you "prefer" follow or this way if you "prefer" draw.

Like dags says...draw is still a key essential even though follow is easier to control.

[CJK]

No kidding. I shot a match in the state tournament last week where I broke, ran the first five balls, and was looking at a relatively short shot down the rail that I needed to draw to get position. Because of where his seven balls were, I couldn't follow, or I would have been facing a bank shot that would have had to miss the 8 by about a quarter inch to work. I don't like that thought, so I hit the ball down the rail, and because I was stretching and not comfortable with the shot, I didn't come back quite far enough, and had to kick at my ball. So instead of a runout, he ran down to the 8 on me. Fortunately, he can draw, and did too much, hanging himself behind my ball, so I won. Had he used follow or even a stop shot, I was done. But he wanted a shorter shot at the 8, and draw does look impressive.

[skor]

cjk,
your problem was not that you had to stretch, without seeing how you played your balls my guess is that the 2 shots before were not done in the best way, leaving you with a position in which you had to stretch, In a case like that were you have NO other choice then you should have used the mechanical bridge (if you practice with it then you can get a nice draw using it).

Draw shots may look cool but they are harder to control and harder to perform, I rather use top spin if I can get to position with it.
As Bob Jewett said: "remember the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid)" :)

[DZ314]

The KISS principle applies to many things, I use it when working on my car because when I forget to I usually pay the price for it. :o

[CJK]

The ball was on the rail, a foot from the corner pocket. His ball was next to it, back a little toward me. He had another ball down below the shot, which prevented using follow to get position. I use a mechanical bridge quite well, but if I only have to stretch a bit for a shot, I would rather stretch than use a bridge. The bottom line is I wasn't as comfortable with the shot as I should have been before shooting it, and I missed. For me to have played those last shots any differently would have required a lot of screwing around on the earlier shots, like shooting a bank instead of cutting, or playing three-cushion position for a shot instead of stopping. To get position for that shot down the rail, I had to play the cue ball two rails, because there was no other way to get there. Until that shot, the game went perfectly.