Best Value Break Combo

[sonnic]

I am in the market for a new break cue and i know that the break is the most important shot in the game so i wanted to get a handle on what everyone is using.

Which type are you using?

Sonnic

[skor]

I've tried many cues for breaking, Meucci, Cuetec, McDermott, Schuler, Bear and Falcon none of them felt as good as the Predator BK, it works great for me

[Tanar]

I have the Predator BK and have tried the Cuetec and Balabushka Sharp Break. The BK is the best for me, but all of my buddies like the Sharp Break. I do, however, have reservations about the craftsmanship of the Sharp Break as the one my buddy has seperated at the forearm and handle. The company is replacing it.

The more I read about custom cue building, the more I notice the corners that are cut by cue manufacturers. But that culd be a whole 'nuther thread.

[audiopro]

I do have to disagree with the break being the most important shot. I think dropping the money ball is the most important shot! :-P

[jbenson]

I have a plain old jump/break cue I use for breaking. The only reason I chose a jump/break cue was because of the tip. I bought some of those pheonlic tips, but after about 4 or 5 breaks the tip would pop off. I tried everything to get those things to stay on. After talking with many many people for their advice on how to keep them on, I just settled for one straight from the manufacturer already installed with one of those tips. Oh, and the diameter of the shaft is a 14mm and provides a nice stiff hit. In my opinion, it doesn't matter about the cue you use to break with, but it is all about the tip you are using.

[audiopro]

One thing I have learned just recently after reading one of dags posts, is a lighter cue works better. I have always thought a 21oz is best for breaking because you could get more inertia behind it. Surprisingly though the speed increase I get out of dropping just a few oz to an 18 is amazing. Either that or I am going crazy. I went from so so breaks that rarely dropped anything but did ok at breaking out balls, to great breaks that usually drops a couple balls and gets the balls spread well.

So like dags said in previous posts, a lighter cue is definitely better in my book.

[DZ314]

I also agree with using a light cue to break with. I have tried every weight from 21 to 18oz and found what audiopro did, that the lightest one (18oz) is best. Not only have I found that more balls are pocketed, but also the cue ball usually winds up in a better off position (middle of table) after the balls have come to a rest.

[CJK]

I use a light Lucasi jump/break cue for one main reason -- I play in a VNEA league, and a few of the bars have tables that are inconveniently close to a wall. I can take the lower part of the Lucasi butt and attach my Predator shaft to it for those tight shots, and it feels a lot more stable than the crappy short house cues that some of those bars have.

[sonnic]

I do have to disagree with the break being the most important shot. I think dropping the money ball is the most important shot!

I think it is the most important shot cause if you cant play you cant win. Not to mention it sets the tone for the game. Not to say that making that money ball isn't as important obviously it is but If i break make nothing and then he runs the table that what was the most important shot in that game??? its happened to me more than once.

Sonnic

[audiopro]

I hear ya. In Florida the lottery commision had an ad campaign. "You gotta play to win"

If ya cant play cause ya cant shoot, you cant win. (Hmm, thats a lot of cant's. Soooo negative eh..)

:)

[skor]

I use a light Lucasi jump/break cue for one main reason -- I play in a VNEA league, and a few of the bars have tables that are inconveniently close to a wall. I can take the lower part of the Lucasi butt and attach my Predator shaft to it for those tight shots, and it feels a lot more stable than the crappy short house cues that some of those bars have.

when I used to play in bar league, I used to carry a two piece Stelth short (junior) cue, it played much better then a jump/break cue without the rear part of the butt because of the weight and ballance of it

[sonnic]

I know everyone will want the predator break cue. I guess i should of put the poll w/ out the predator i was interested in what people thought was the best way to spend $100 to buy a break cue. But then again those people who have a predator bk would say dont cut corners save up and buy the predator right guys? I have to wonder though how good can the predator be? How much better than another break cue? I have seen the specs on the 314 shaft but what about the break cue? Is there some evidence why its better?

[dags_lax]

Danger Will Robinson! Danger! I see pool players taking the wrong mental attitude toward the game.


To say one shot is the most important implies that there is a least important shot. (In acctuality there are two least important shots in pool. I'll clue you all in as to what they are at the end of this post.) To assign more importance to one shot leaves a player open to making mistakes on others because he ends up taking shots for granted. Everyone knows what I am talking about because everone has done it. By extension this attitude can be applied to specific games, opponents and matches. Ever lost to an opponent you shouldn't have? Your team lost a match to last place team?

In eight and nine ball the break shot is a slop shot. Just like every other shot it is an important shot to be sure, but still it's a slop shot. The best you can do is to hit the spot you are aiming for and hope for the best. There are things you can try to increase the chances of a favorable outcome from your break but in the end it comes down to "did I slop a ball in or not."

As promised I'll tell you the two least important shots. The are the shot you just shot and the shot that you'll be shooting next. The most important shot? Most definitely it's the one you are shooting now!

[audiopro]

When it comes down to it, all the shots made are needed to win the game. So they are all equally important I think in general. Save the flukes where someone scratches, or drops the 8 early.

So save a couple flukes, you cannot win a game unless you make all your balls.. Right? So they're all pretty important.

[skor]

sonnic,
if we'll take the predator BK out then I would cosider one of tree cues:
1. Mezz break cue
2. Sledgehammer break cue
3. Arnot break cue

dags,
I guess you are right, the most important is the one you shoot at now,
but the break is very important as well, more important then most people realize.
about the slop, if you study the spread of a 9ball rack in different speed and different cue ball position along the string (always shooting dead center hit and hitting the center of the 1ball), you can learn what to do in order to control the CB, the one ball and the wing ball.
if the rack is good, all the balls are touching and the one ball is right on the spot, I can make the wing ball in the top corner pocket 7 out of 10 times and that is no slop. I spent many hours on the practice table and on a computer simulator just to leard the break.

[Tanar]

Have any of you heard of the Breakrak system? I found it on the Expo website and itlook pretty neat. Check this out: www.breakrak.com

[skor]

I don't like any of those toys out there, It's for lazy people.
I racked and break and racked.... for 2 hours when I was working on the break and learning it.

[sonnic]

I think that is a good idea. Skor said he practiced breaking for 2 hours once. Well maybe if he had this gaget he would of gotten 2 hours of real practice instead of 1 hour of practice and 1 hour of gathering the balls getting them in the rack and then breaking. I would buy it if the price was right... and of course if it worked like they say it did.

My 2 cents,
sonnic

[audiopro]

I am usually against such equipment. In general with most things I think along the lines of this. The best way to shoot a gun better, is to shoot a gun. The best way to run faster, is to practice running.

The best way to learn to break properly, is to break.

Course I am old fashioned, and a lot of my opinions on instruction come from how I like to do things. I can't with a clear mind rule out the possibility that others learn different. If there was only one single best way to do everything for everyone, then we would all be pretty boring people I think. Different strokes for different folks, PUN INTENDED! :)

When it comes down to it, I quote a song.. "It's your thang, do what ya wanna do.."

[sonnic]

yeah but come on if you decided you were going to practice breaking for a few hours. I would bet by the 10th game you would lose interest simply because you have to rack up the balls again and again and again. Im not usually into such gagets either but it couldn't hurt right? If you had this gaget sitting next to the table i guarentee that you would use it (so long as it worked of course).

[Tanar]

A friend pointed out a good flaw in the Breakrak yesterday. The system does not allow for the action of the object balls after the break. You maybe able to get nice positioning on the cue ball, but the object balls could knock the cue ball around the table.

I think it would be a neat toy to try, but I would never spend that kind of cash on it.

[skor]

when you come to the table to break, you'll see balls (7-15 of them), so you need to practice with what you are about to play with.
Now I don't see how you can learn the spread of the rack from this gadget or which balls you can pocket or control.

[audiopro]

I would bet by the 10th game you would lose interest simply because you have to rack up the balls again and again and again.

Well for those of us used to losing, we are used to racking over and over again.. lol.. kidding...

That is a good point sonnic. But sometimes you have to take the time to learn something. I can spend 6 minutes setting up bamboo stalks in an arranged pattern for sword cutting techniques that only take a few seconds. But that practice helps immensely in perfecting a technique that could not be judged the same if you were simply cutting air.

[sonnic]

I would never pay 200 bucks for it... now that being said i think that if you could break and keep the cue ball in the middle of the table consistantly you would help you more than hurt you. Now of course the balls could hit the CB and knock it thats just a varriable that we have to deal with. conversly are you saying that you plan to hit balls in the rack and then plan on the CB ending up in the middle of the table? there is no way that you could ever practice that. but you can practice leaving the CB in the middle of the table which would help you to run out more often.

[skor]

yeah but come on if you decided you were going to practice breaking for a few hours. I would bet by the 10th game you would lose interest simply because you have to rack up the balls again and again and again. Im not usually into such gagets either but it couldn't hurt right? If you had this gaget sitting next to the table i guarentee that you would use it (so long as it worked of course).

lose interest after 10 shots ?? are you for real ?
if you are not committed to something then you'll lose interest after 5 minutes, I don't know about you but I am very much committed to this sport and will do what it takes to get better.

Ask audiopro about commitment to something (like marshal art)
when you stand and punch air for a few hours :)

[sonnic]

ok your right skor of course you wouldn't be done after 5 min. i was exaderating a bit. but my point is you could spend more time breaking and getting real practice in. Instead of learning how to rack again and agian. and skors other comment about how he cannot see how you could learn anything from it is ludacris. im not talking about learning the spread of the balls with it. your right it wouldn't help you a bit there but it would help you to learn what the cue ball does and where it will end up. I can see your point though about hitting a certain spot in the 9 ball rack where the end ball goes in the corner. you couldn't practice for that with this gaget your right.

ALL THIS GAGET IS GOOD FOR IS CUE BALL CONTROLL ON THE BREAK!!!

[KGeeEd]

I have the Predator BK. Sometimes I will continue shooting with it after the break. It is not a bad playing cue. I don't like that dorkey panther on it. I also have a problem with the finish chipping. This comes from the butt hitting the metal band around the perimeter of the table. I did have a problem with taking the cue apart one time. It seemed as if the metal pin was seized in the joint. It took a lot of twisting and pulling to get apart. I now keep the pin waxed.

I have read on other forums that the warrantee sucks. There is a problem with the ferrules breaking and these are not covered by the warrantee. I have not had this problem. The only thing covered is the laminated shaft that is guaranteed against separating. Nothing else is covered.

[CJK]

????

From the Predator website:

FERRULE:

"DO NOT TRY TO REPLACE THE 314 FERRULE OR TURN IT DOWN BELOW 12.25MM; if you do, it will no longer be covered under warranty. The 314 ferrule is a polymer developed specifically for its’ properties of stiffness and hardness. Much of the 314 shaft’s performance can be attributed to our ferrule’s design and composition. A very fine micro paper (1000 grit) will remove most scratches. Careful sanding is essential since the wood, being much softer, could be sanded to a smaller diameter than the ferrule. If you feel you need a new ferrule, send it to us and we will replace your ferrule and tip and condition your shaft and send it back to you UPS for $40.00"

This would indicate to me that the ferrule is covered, and in fact, I am positive that Neil has indicated that elsewhere. As long as you don't try to have someone other than a Predator-authorized facility replace it, and didn't turn it below 12.25 (smaller on the Z shaft), you should be fine.

There is a lot covered by the Predator warranty:

"Your Predator Cue and or 314 Shaft is warranted for life against any manufacturer defect that does not include warpage or abuse."

http://www.predatorcues.com/english/warranty.htm

[StB]

I think I'm going to start a business selling cue insurance with all this talk about thousand dollar pieces of wood, and people aubsuing them, or having their teamates abuse them.

The only problem is, how do you put a dollar value on something that's value is in that of the beholder?

[CJK]

A "stated value" policy, where the insurer and insured agree on the value for insurance purposes, then premiums are based on that stated value. I think most homeowners' policies would cover a stolen cue, but it's the value part that would cause a problem. I guess they'd use a common resource and look them up.

[audiopro]

Umm... Uhh... How about a receipt showing how much you paid? :)

[CJK]

The problem would be with a cue that's a few years old. No adjuster is going to believe that the cue didn't go down in value without something to prove it.

[StB]

What about those limited edition cues that go UP in value over the years? Maybe some type based on value, like a percentage. When the value goes up your premimum goes up. Anyone interested?

[Tanar]

How about the Blue Book?

[StB]

I didn't know there was a blue book for cues.

[audiopro]

Joking? That would be cool.. Wanna see how much my original Balabushka (BAD condition) is worth.. :?

[StB]

With the way things are, that might be another thing to start...especially with the popularity of Ebay.

[Tanar]

Here is the site, you have to pre-order your copy for September:

www.bluebookinc.com

They also have the blubook for guns on there

[skor]

audiopro,
I don't know if you are joking or not about the Balabushka, but in case you do own one, In the new issue of Billiard Digest there is an article about refinishing vintage cues, the bottom line is that after refinishing the value of the cues drop, so if you have a Balabushka in a bad shape, don't rush it to be refinished

[audiopro]

Now that is cool... Nice Link!

[audiopro]

Yeah, it is really bad though... I dont plan on having it re-finished though anyway. It has more sentimental value than anything else. Came from my step dad. The wrap is completely gone, and it is beaten up pretty bad. Dents and dings all over. The shaft is non-existant. Has been whittled down to, I'm guessing, 11mm maybe less.

[DZ314]

Yikes, but it is still an original hand made Balabushka!

[audiopro]

Yup... Tis true... I had some pics of it somewhere along with a coulpe other cues of mine. Can't find them though. Will take some pics again when I can remember.

Senile at 28 sucks! So may be a while... What are we talking about again? :)

[DZ314]

Hey I am 28 as well, so don't start talking like that now! :lol:

[New Kid In The Hall]

A local player in my hall had the sledgehammer. It has a ton of squirt if you don't hit it near the center of the ball. The tip is neat, but with really hard leather tips available, I'm not sure I would want to risk missing my mark just to get a phonelic tip.

I think the BK is superior.

[dags_lax]

Even a 314 shaft has some squirt. On your break you should be doing the exact same thing every time so a player should be able to adjust for squirt on any cue. If you are hitting the head ball square you shouldn't be using english anyway. In eight ball I break on the second ball so I do use some english but I must have subconsciously adjusted for squirt because I don't have trouble hitting my spot.

I have used the Predator Break and it is a fine break cue. But for the break I still prefer my Viking with a phonelic tip. I would love to try a Predator BK with a phonelic tip though. If the phonelic tip gave the same improvement that it did for my Viking that would truly be a great combination.

[KGeeEd]

I do have to disagree with the break being the most important shot. I think dropping the money ball is the most important shot! :-P

Ideally this is done on the break :D

[audiopro]

ha ha... Good Point!!! ;)

[Tanar]

For the break being the most important shot of the game, I didn't think so until my tournament this past weekend. When the guys got down to the final 8, if they didn't sink a ball on the break, there was about a 90% chance they were being run-out. It was truly amazing to watch.

One of the players in the tournament has apparently decided to take the next two years and make playing pool his full-time career. I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing on the world scene at the end of the two years. BTW, he's 20 years old.

[dags_lax]

Nine ball is a slop game and the break is pretty much a slop shot so if the money ball you got lucky. The same goes for eight ball break being slop the only difference being that the eight on the break is not a win, although some league have altered that rule for coin-op tables.

[dags_lax]

Tannar: What happened if the player made a ball on the break, made four more balls and then missed? Without the opponents interfering balls I bet the run outs were even easier. The only time that the break is the most important shot is when you are breaking. The shot that is the most important is the one you are shooting now! It's not the previous shot, that’s history. It's not the next shot or the money ball shot. That's the future, you may not get there. Especially if you don't treat the current shot as the most important shot.

[Tanar]

Dags,
You are right, if a player missed a shot during his turn at the table, then he was pretty much guaranteed to be run-out. One of the players at the tourney actually broke and ran the table in about 40 seconds. He was playing his good friend in the semi-finals and I think they decided to split the winnings, so there was no tension in the match. It was a thing of beauty.