caroom of the opponents ball????

[confused]

Is it legal to caroom your object ball of the opponents ball in 8-ball?

[skor]

as long as you hit your object ball first and you either pocket a ball (exept the 8 ball) or hit a rail it is a legal shot.

you can even carom your ball of the 8 ball, and carom the 8 ball of your opponent ball

[audiopro]

This depends on your league and local rules. APA Orlando, FL you can if you hit one of your balls first. Simply put, you must hit one of your balls first, then something must hit a rail, or be pocketed. What the cue or the balls do after or during, is not relevant. Well, granted you dont pocket the 8 or cue.

[calling all pockets]

Does the caroom have to be called?

[skor]

According to the WPA (world pool association) rules, which are the official international rules, In 8 ball you have to call the object ball and the pocket that you are going to pocket the ball in (obvious shots doesn't need to be called), in APA you don't need to call anything but into which pocket you are going to pocket the 8 ball, and in bar, well they each have their house rules and in some of them, you have to call everything - caroms, double kisses and so on.

[DZ314]

I don't call caroms, etc and if the opponent protests a shot I tell him he never specified any rules before the game started so I was just playing by the standard APA, WPA rules where you do not have to call caroms.

[Tanar]

Basically, it doesn't matter what happens to the object ball as long as the 4 following things happen:
1. You call the ball and the pocket (not how it will get there)
2. You hit one of your balls first
3. The called ball goes in the called pocket
4. You don't sink the 8 ball or cue ball during your turn

The object ball can carom off of any and every ball on the table, bank 100 times and drop in the called pocket and your shot was still legal.

As for bar rules, they are stupid rules, but when in Rome.... When I am playing in a bar it is just expected that we will be playing bar rules. If your a good enough player (as I am sure anybody posting on this site is), you should be comfortable and competent enough to call a ball and not worry about any unexpected caroms, banks, etc. I have had guys in the past try to tell me I didn't call the ball hitting on the inside of the horn as the ball went in the pocket, which is petty. If you are out for a quality game, you generally won't find it in a bar. If you're out to make a little money or drink for free all night, then the bar is the place to go.

[DZ314]

Yep, in the bar people want to assume that is what is being played but it is foolish to do that. I will usually ask if we are playing by the real rules or crappy bar rules before the game. If they say bar rules then I know what kind of player I am playing against, a casual one opposed to a more serious one.

[audiopro]

Tanar, in APA rules nothing need be called save the 8-Ball...

Only exception to making any 'Calls' in APA 8-Ball, is if a ball is 'Frozen' on a rail.

[Tanar]

Audio, your saying the game is basically a fluke game? The other rule I noticed that is different from VNEA rules when I was in theUS for a tourney, is that if the cue ball goes in a pocket while on the 8, you don't lose. In VNEA rules, if you scratch on the 8, you lose.

[audiopro]

LOL... Yeah, when playing APA and getting lucky with a ball going in an un-planned pocket, we always cheer "I APA'ed it!"

So yeah, APA slop counts basically. But I honestly think that is the best way, because call shot pool there is WAY too much room for argument when pocketing a ball, and there are to many people in the bar waiting to play their matches. It would take twice the time to play league nights, we would have four times the arguing, and it would just not be as fun for a LOT of people if you had to call every shot.

As for APA, if you scratch on the 8, it is marked as a S8 on the scorecard, and you lose!

[CJK]

In VNEA rules, you call the ball and the pocket. As long as it is a legal shot (cue ball hits your ball first), the shot counts. There isn't ever a dispute about rails, caroms, double-kisses, or any of that.

[dags_lax]

Most of the leagues around my area are VENA Leagues, some BCA Leagues and a couple of Bar Rules Leagues. I have been shooting the VENA leagues for about 20 years now and the scratch on the eight rule is not a loss if you don't pocket the eight. It may be that our charter holder has adopted a different rule but that also is the rule in tournaments around our area (I don't like to travel very far to shoot). As for the BCA leagues the rules are almost the same as the VENA Leagues. Both have a player call the shot. As long as there is a good hit, any way the ball gets to ends up dropping is a good shot and the shooter stays at the table. There are no arguments that way!

As for games taking longer it doesn't matter much whether you are playing slop or "league rules." What make a game take longer is when both players are not pocketing balls. It takes eight shots to win a game of eight ball. For example I get to the table get a bad hit and pocket my ball, my opponent now does the same thing. This goes on for seven turns and on the eighth turn I win the game by making a good shot on the eight ball. Eight shots and eight balls in the pocket. That is two less shots than if I ran seven balls, missed my opponent ran seven balls then missed, then I made the eight on my next turn. Of course there are a few seconds lost each time the player at the table changes but I think you can see the point I am trying to make. Slop or call rules have nothing to do with how long a game takes. It's not pocketing balls that drag a game out.

As for bar rules I will never play it in a bar, only at home with guests or children who rarely play pool and bar rules are all they understand.

[audiopro]

Have to disagree with that dags. Having to call shots CAN make a game last longer. Because people argue bitch and moan. Well you didnt say it would hit a rail, or you didnt say it would do this or that. Yes I did say so. Okay go find a witness from a non-involved party. Ok, here's Joe he says I am right.. Ahh yes, but I found Steve, he is from a non-involved team also and he said you never called it that way, blah blah blah, whine whine whine...

May not be like this everywhere, but we have a LOT of whiners and people who get very very picky about rules. So much so they ALREADY take the fun out of the game. All we need now is to make call shot rules and people will spend 30 minutes a game arguing.

[Tanar]

If that's the case, then why play? I would either switch leagues or move to a different area (which I am considering now). In our league rules (VNEA), it doesn't matter if the ball hits a hundred rails, as long as it goes in the called pocket it is a good ball. That eliminates all the whining, moaning and bitching.

[audiopro]

Actually it's funny you mention that. I have not been shooting their much on league nights just for that reason. The first season I played I was on a team with the worst attitude. One in particular would always whine if she had to play a 2 "I hate playing twos." Or if she had to play a 5 "I hate playing fives." The other guy got so tanked on Jack and Coke that if anyone made a comment or a sigh on the opposing team he would look at them with this dead stare and ask "What the F did you say?"

So I quit that team and joined another. They are much better to play with, most of the people on my current team all work at the bar, I am the only one who doesn't. So they, kinda by default, have better attitudes.

I love the place I shoot pool at, just could do without some people, but I think you get that anywhere ya go. Gotta take the good with the bad.

[dags_lax]

Audio: I guess it was just a question of semantics! I don't disagree with you. Arguing can lengthen a game and if neither player budges how do you decide who's turn it is at the table?

Call your shot: get a good hit, the ball goes in the pocket you called it's a good shot.

Bar rules: In addition to calling the pocket the shooter needs to call all kisses, caroms, and banks.

Slop: Get a good hit and pocket any ball of your group and you made a good shot.

The arguing over shots is the reason I don't like to play bar rules. Also I prefer to shoot against a better caliber of players than the majority of shooters who will only play bar rules.

[DZ314]

The arguing over shots is the reason I don't like to play bar rules. Also I prefer to shoot against a better caliber of players than the majority of shooters who will only play bar rules.
I could not agree with you more!!!!!!!! 8)

[audiopro]

Gotcha dags, misunderstood what ya meant.

My bad...

:)

[skor]

I stoped playing pool in bars, I rather go to a pool hall. In the last year I play mostly 9 ball and I like the 9 ft. tables much better :)

[Tanar]

I just like playing bar rules at the bar so I can drink for free. People around here are playing less and less for anything anymore and I don't go out to the bar that often so I am not recognized.

Otherwise, if I am actually playing a game, I won't play bar rules either as they are stupid rules. Most of the people who play them are not skilled enough to call all the caroms, etc. Also, why should a player be penalized for the other player's foul? By this I mean, if you have one ball left behind the head string and the other player shoots the cue ball into a pocket, you are forced to try a long bank to get at your ball.

Oh well, c'est la vie.

[DZ314]

IMO bar rules should never have been created.