Hard or soft that is the question

[sonnic]

now im talking about the break here. I know that a heavy cue will have more weight which equals more power but your giving up some speed. conversly a lighter cue will not give as much power but you can get more speed in the shot which could equal power. So my question is what is the best weight cue to break with? Is it personal preference or is there some real science behind it? thanks for you responses.

Thanks,
Sonnic

[sonnic]

dammit there is supose to be a 21 and over option. for those of you who like 21 and over just choose 20 and state that in your post. sorry i did fill out a 21+ it just didn't work.

Sonnic

[audiopro]

I prefer to break with a 21.. My play cue is a 18.5 although I somewhat am thinking I would have been better with a heavier play cue. However breaking with any weight I get the balls busted up fine, pocketing one is a whole other problem. Only 20% of my breaks I pocket I would say, even though the balls scatter like nuts.

[DZ314]

I prefer a 19oz for a breaking cue. I also happen to play a 19oz cue.

[sonnic]

somewhere along the way i heard that a light cue is better to break with. what im really looking for is why or why not this is a good idea.

Thanks,
Sonnic

[jbenson]

In my personal experience, I tend to go with a 19.5. I did try a 17 and went all the way up to a 26 a buddy of mine had. The 17 spread the balls out very nicely but the cue ball was flying around the table and either scratched or left me with no shot. With the "log", I did get cue control but suffered in pocketing balls. So with the in between weight, I can not only pocket the balls, the cue is almost always in the center of the table no matter how hard I hit it.

[Tobe]

I can´t uderstand how someone can play under 19,5 oz weight cue. By my self I´am playing with 21 oz, and thats perfect weight for me...

[wobster]

My playing cue is 18.75 and my break cue is 18. I can break out much better with a lighter cue because there is more speed. I can get almost twice the spread with a lighter cue.

[Kokopuffs]

I use a Dufferin 17 oz. SNOOKER cue for breaking.

[wobster]

Tobe-> the lighter the cue, the more control and english you can get (at least for most people).

[dags_lax]

A weight of the cue shouldn't matter when it comes to english unless that weight difference is near the tip end of the shaft. A lighter cue will give a player more control over the cue ball. By this what I really mean is more control over the speed of the cue ball. Now to justify what I am saying:

From the formula KE=1/2M*V^2 (Kinetic Energy=1/2 the mass multiplied by the velocity squared). A .55 kg cue (19.4 oz) striking a cue ball at 8.0467 meters per second (18 miles per hour) will have a kinetic energy value of 17.8061 joule. Let’s use this value for kinetic energy as a the desired energy, (how hard we need to strike the cue ball to get the shape we want).

To generate the same energy (17.8061 joule) a .5812 kg cue (20.5oz) we will need to strike the cue ball at 7.8277 meters per second (17.5101 miles per hour).

To generate the same energy (17.8061 joule) a .5174 kg cue (18.25oz) we will need to strike the cue ball at 8.2963 meters per second (18.5583 miles per hour).

Now lets assume we hit the cue ball to hard, say an additional 1 meter per second (2.2370 miles per hour).

For the 20.5 oz cue that gives us 22.6460 joule, an additional 4.8399 joule.

For the 18.25 oz cue that gives us 22.3572 joule, an additional 4.5511 joule.

With the heavier cue, the same error (1 meter per second of cue speed), imparts over 6% more additional energy to the cue ball compared to the lighter cue. What does this mean in a real game? If you hit the ball a little to hard or to soft the cue ball will come to rest closer to your intended position with a lighter cue than with a heavier cue!

[audiopro]

Nice.. Actually makes sense.. Very well explained..

[wobster]

Ok, good to know. Just so you know, I have no clue what all of that stuff in between the first and last paragraphs was.......

[CJK]

I break with a 19 oz cue, and play with an 18.5 oz. They just feel right to me. Heavier cues don't give me the same feel, but then, I don't try to break hard.

[sanj]

most pros break with a very light cue.
i know that charlie williams uses a 16 oz predator break cue.
i will stick to a light break cue as it works for me.

[Tanar]

What exactly do you do for a job, Dags? That is a pretty impressive technical explanation you rattled out there. Very nice.

[dags_lax]

Partially retired Bean Counter with a sH*T load of physics classes in college. But that was so long ago I don't think Einstein had developed his theory of relativity yet.

[skor]

Dags,
your calculation may be true if you were throwing an object like a bowling ball, but with pool since the stays in tour hand and it is known that the lenght of bridge changes the action that you put on the CB, you have to calculate the mass of the cue from the CB "point of view" different bridge lenght will "feel" like different mass. also you have to take in to cosideration that the friction of the cloth and different cloth has different friction, and you have to consider the rails as well, some rail are faster then others and some are more accurate the other rails.
So basicly what I'm trying to say is that there are a lot of things to consider, it changes from table to table and even the same table will play different on different weather.

[skor]

"but with pool since the stays in tour hand and"
BUT WITH POOL SINCE THE CUE STAYS IN YOUR HAND.....

[skor]

You also need to consider follow through, there is a difference in the cue ball movment if you follow through or not even if you stroke the ball with the same speed

[dags_lax]

Valid pionts Skor. These do have an effect on what happens to the cue ball AFTER it leaves the cue tip. The amount of kinetic energy a moving cue stick has is dependent soley on the cue's mass and velocity.

As for follow through, it has no effect on what the cue ball does. The cue ball is off the tip almost instintaniously after contact. Any thing more than that is a push shot and is illegal.

The cue ball does what it does because of where the tip hits it, the angle that the tip hits it, the energy behind the tip, and the friction between the tip and the cue ball. The other points you mentioned have an effect also but for the purpose of discussion you need to assume they are constant from one shot to the next although condtion can definitly change from table to table and day to day.

The purpose of follow through is to increase the likleyhood that a player will strike the cue ball proprly to achieve the desired result.

[audiopro]

Right, but what about the earths gravitational pull, and axis rotation speed? What differences would there be in shooting from the north pole versus the equator?

:twisted:

Greg

[dags_lax]

It's definitely some thing to ponder. At least at the equator. As much as I enjoy the game if I was at the north pole I don't think I would venture out in the cold to go to the pool hall.

I also just thought of something else. Poor Maughanm living out there in Denver has to deal with the gravitational pull from all those mountains to the west. And for all these years he thought he was just playing on crooked tables!

Oops! Thats Kokopuffs out there in Colorado.

[Nick T.]

re: Dags’ excellent presentation earlier in this thread - - or - - a heavier break cue may not be best for you!

The energy formula makes it clear that a lighter cue is less error prone when shooting for position, but IMO it doesn’t make the argument for a heavier cue for the break. The physiology of our arm muscles is also a significant factor.

At my age (69) the speed of my muscle contraction has slowed to the point that a lighter cue does not result in more energy than using a heavier cue!

You can do a simple test to see what is best for you: put a number ball on the foot spot and the cue ball in the kitchen just enough off center that it won’t interfere with the object ball. Fire away a few times with the lightest house cue available and keep a record of object ball travel up and down the table. Repeat with the heaviest house cue available. Now you’ll know what is the best weight break cue for you.

I consistently get about 1/4 of a table length more with a 21 compared to an 18. One of my teenage sons gets about 1/4 of a table length more with an 18 (he is a competitive long distance runner) and the other son get about 3/4 of a table more with an 18 (he’s a competitive sprinter).

My shooters are between 18.5 and 19.0 oz and my breaker is 20.8 oz. As has been said many times by many people, “There is no best of anything, there is only what is best for you!