sandbagging?!? I am not!

[wobster]

I know that this qualifies under the "ignore it" category, but after 5 or 6 straight weeks, it is starting to get under my skin.
I play APA 8 and 9 ball and I am a skill level 3 in 8-ball and 4 in 9-ball. I am constantly improving, because I play at least an hour a night, and I watch videos and get instruction. For the last 5 or 6 weeks, I am getting complaints that my skill level is too low, and I am sandbagging against other teams to keep my skill level low. I just went up to a 4, and the opponents are already calling the league operator trying to get me moved up.
Has anybody dealt with anything like this and how did you get the other teams to drop it?

[parrothead]

Can't say that I have dealt with it, but my suggestion is to talk to the league operator and explain that you haven't been sandbagging, you have been practicing. I think that they will probably understand.

[Buddy]

Wobster,
Just ignore the haters. Play your game the best you can each match and ignore the handicap system. I went from a 4 to a 7 gradually in a few years time with much practice and heard much of the same talk. It is the honest teams who win in the end. We went to Vegas for 9-ball three out of four years with no handicap manipulation.
Don't let the talk bring you down. Keep plugging away.
-Bud

[wobster]

thanks for the suggestions guys. I am going to a Dr. Cue seminar this month, so I hopefully will move to a 5 pretty quick.

[maughanm]

What is the Dr. Cue Seminar? You have to understand that I live miles from civilization. mike

[wobster]

DR. Cue Tom Rossman is doing a 90 minute seminar at the Hillcrest Bar & Grill in Sturgis, MI on Saturday Jan. 31st. He is doing instruction and trickshots. Tickets are $10. I actually called him on the phone and talked to him and he said that most people improve 1 skill level after going to it and seeing him talk about stroke and aiming.

[wobster]

I have a feeling this is only going to get worse. I played Dr. Cue at the seminar yesterday, ran the table, and told him I was a 4. He said "There is no way you are a 4." He was not happy.
I am going to get a T-shirt made that says "Dr. Cue called me a sandbagger and all I got was this lousy t-shirt."

[DZ314]

Are you kidding?

[wobster]

I am kidding about the shirt, not the break and run.

[New Kid In The Hall]

Wobster, he's sour grapes...anyone can have a good game...I know a gal at our local hall who's only break and run of her life came against the best player in the joint. Her claim to fame...it can happen. Nice run.

[CJK]

Yeah, congrats on that. Echoing NKITH, anyone who plays regularly can have a great run every so often. Heck, my team (currently 7th out of 12 in our league) beat the first place team pretty bad last week. It's a four-person team, so each player plays four games, one against each of the other team's players. I have the highest average on the team, which, when rounded up as we are required to do, is a 7. Their lowest player was a 7. We took four out of five against them (total counts as another round). They had only dropped 11 rounds all season. In fact, by the third game, we had a 43 point lead on the total. Their players were rather upset, especially since they crushed us the first time we played them this season. Last week just happened to be our week.

[DZ314]

Wow, way to show him what was up!

[wobster]

This week, only 2 days after the Dr. Cue thing, I played on our monday night 9-ball league and got beat by 10 balls by a 3. I wanted to go home and cry. I looked to the captain and said "Ya, that's why I'm still only a 4." He probably still thinks I was sandbagging and lost on purpose.

[Tanar]

Wobster,
All I can say is play your game the best you can. If you're improving, theother players should be happy for you, not calling you a cheater and ifthey are, that is their problem.

Here's a good example. Last year I played on two teams in the same league, but on different nights. For one team, I was just a spare and (I am not too sure if your handicap system is the same as ours) I was rated as a 9. On the team I played as a regular, my game was erratic and I sank down to a 4 at one point. With my regular team, we had a couple complaints as I had a couple ERO's and we took 2nd place in the league in the fnals. At no time was I sandbagging, it just seemed that I had bad nights on Wednesday (the stats person also screwed up on my stats which we pointed out a few times before anything was done, I should have been about a 6). Just play your game the best you can and be proud of the fact that you are doing well.

[Timbo]

The tough thing about APA is many players (Wobster sounds like one) start off with limited experiance in both league play and low to intermediate skills. Once playing in a league, if a player is dedicated, their skills move up very quickly and sometimes gives the appearance of sandbagging. Some players never get better - some become very solid players in a year.

I know one player in my league who's first experiance playing pool was APA. Within one year that player went from a 3 to a 7 (and a good 7). People complained of sandbagging, but did not see that he was in the pool hall 3 - 4 hours a day playing the top players in our city (grumpy old men who happened to take the VNEA 8 ball championship last year). The positive? This player gradually moved up to 7 by the year end tourney and never complained.....the system worked.

The telling tale of a sandbagger (in my opinion) is when it comes down to the crunch and in a tourney lasting a couple of days a player "constantly" plays far beyond his/her historical average. This is where teams get kicked out (rightfully so). I saw it happen in Vegas twice. If your average goes up 2 levels in a tourney your team is disqualified.

Anyhoo. there will always be people trying to play the system in any league with handicapping. I think APA does as good a job possible weeding that out, though there will always be players that get away with it. You can't worry about being called a sandbagger, you just have to play your best and NEVER complain when your average goes up.

I'm Tim, the chump on the bottom left with his eyes closed,


http://www.telusplanet.net/public/lisabare/yellowbhome.htm

[x_cuesme]

Hi All-

I'm a woman player- here's another twist on handicaps.

I have been dismissed from teams 3 times because my handicap went "too high"- I didn't listen and refused to lose on purpose when I was told to. My win record was not the problem- on one team, I had an 88% win record for the session, the highest on the team- and was not invited to come back. I was a 4 at that time. I was replaced with another woman 3 who played poorly.

Conversely, the same people who have dismissed me from teams because my handicap was "too high" consistently complain that I am "sandbagging" when their team has to play mine.

I have let all this "junk" affect my game. I stopped trying to win every time I walked to the table because it HURTS to get tossed off a team when you've played your best for them simply because you WON.

I actually quit playing for a while all together and have started again recently.

If APA can't keep their act together and rate players appropriately (and in our area it doesn't- I can win 7 straight matches and never go up or lose 7 straight matches and never go down), that's not my fault.

I will not play on a team that asks their players to lose or expects me, as a female player, to realize my role is to "get the 7 to the table" and play accordingly.

The complaints of sandbagging continue- I was recently raised in a rated tournament that I have never won due to players protesting my rating as not high enough. I'm not playing there at this point- but I will be back as soon as I'm back "in the swing" of the game.

I've played for years and actually let the "handicap junk" just about drive me away from the table. So here's my advice-

Play POOL. IGNORE IT. Do NOT let league and the gossip and junk affect you. And if Dr. Cue can be so stupid as to make those comments because a player ran a table on him, I'm glad I haven't wasted my money going to one of his seminars. Or maybe- just maybe?- it was actually a COMPLIMENT?????

x_cuesme

[Tanar]

If you're that good of a shooter, you'd be welcome on my team anytime.

In one of my leagues (our handicap system is different) we basically play a scratch game against a hadicap team. Players should respect and enjoy a good player. This game is about the competition, player against the table and if someone is shooting well, that is something to enjoy, not complain about. Too many people get hung up on winning when the experience of playing a better player can make you that much better.

On the other hand, if you have a Super vegas team (we use cash, cash+, vegas and super vegas 1&2 as our levelling) playing in a cash+ league, that is not fair. But that is the leagues fault for crappy management of their leagues. We have a guy in town that won't enter a tournament or play in a team competition unless he has stacked his team and is almost guaranteed a win. This is probably why he is one of the most disliked players in town as well.

Like I said before in this thread, play your best game and you should run across some people who respect your skill and love the game for the game (not winning). I like to win, but playing to the best of my ability irregardless if I win is what keeps me coming back to the pool hall.

[dags_lax]

Even if you are not that good of a player I like your attitude. You should be a welcome addition on a lot of teams. My advice to anyone who is serious about the game, dump the handicapped leagues and get into a scratch league. Then watch and learn. The increased competition will do wonders for your game.

[skor]

what is " scratch league" ?

[parrothead]

Scratch leagues are leagues that don't play with a handicap. It means that how you perform that night is what goes down on paper as the result, no adjustments to the score because you are a better or worse player.

[skor]

playing without handicap doesn't give the week player a chance to win
which may resoult in new players giving the game up, you have to push the new and week player to become better, giving hadicap is the best way to do it, the problem lays with team captains that don't fill the sheet in the right way

[x_cuesme]

Hello-
Couple things-

Thanks for the encouragement- I'm not "that good" (especially after quitting for some time and 'losing' my attitude for a while)-unless you count "good" according to handicap.

I am an APA 4 (that will never change, I can't lower- locked from Vegas) and in BCA I am a 6 in 9 ball at this time- I was a solid 8 when I quit playing.

When playing with a handicap, it helps define the term "good". When you have a 4 on your team that will consistently win against her own handicap level and below, and a high percentage of the time against a 5, with occasional wins against 6's and 7's, you have a darned GOOD 4.

In fact, although less skilled and not near the shot, a 4 or 5 of that caliber is often more useful to a TEAM than the super 7- simply because of the numbers you have to stay under.

On handicaps in general-

I agree scratch leagues are GREAT for experienced players or new players who are willing to work at it, pay their dues, and stay with it until they can win. Unfortunately, most scratch teams don't WANT a new player that can't win because it pulls their team down. In our area, we don't have scratch leagues that divide teams by skill level groupings.

The handicap system is designed to do exactly as skor stated- Give the new or weaker player a chance to learn and stay with the game. And it WORKS- IF you have a Captain and/or Coach who is interested in helping their players improve more than winning the match.

All too often you see a brand new 2 level or weak 3 level player thrown against the opposing team's 6 or 7 as strategy to win- the old "Well, someone is going to lose to him/her, might as well 'waste' the 2, we can save our good guy to stomp one of their weaker players and it will keep ours a 2 where we need them anyhow."

There's my two...and er, a half...cents!

x_cuesme

[parrothead]

In my leagues we are broken up into four sub-leagues. From lowest to highest they are A3, A2, A1, and Masters. Each league gets to vote at the begining of the year as to whether or not they want a handicap. Usually A3 and A2 play with a handicapp because the mix of players covers a wide range of skill levels. Our Masters league also has a handicapp, but I think it is to compensate for the number of EROs and 10-0's.

[Timbo]

Very interesting topic!
I have played in leagues for about 8 years, both VNEA and APA. My team has won 4 trips to Vegas in VNEA and 3 in APA. We won the 1999 APA nine ball championship. My team consisted of a core of highly skilled players (6's and 7's) and low end players (3's and 4's).

First to address players who get angry when their averages go up and their team does not have a place for them anymore.

Face it, when there is a cap on the team average in a match any team that is going to be able to compete has to have a combination of highly skilled playes and low average players. Otherwise a team may go over the cap and be limited to playing only 4 players in a match. (saw it happen in vegas). After our first year of going to Vegas for APA we had to drop three players and bring on three new players to field a team under the cap. Two of those players never held a cue in their hands before they played with us. Dropping and adding players to teams in APA is just a reality - really no different than pro sports team that drop players because of a salary cap.

Addressing scratch leagues
Our team after years of league play come to the realization we could not play together anymore because we had grown as players and our averages could not fit under the APA cap. Our only other choice was to play in the masters league in our town which is basically break and watch the other team run pool which was beyond some of our player's skills.

The answer? We started our own league. A singles league complete with schedules, trophies, stats etc. We have 14 players in our league and play a race to ten once a week for 25 weeks. Dues are $20 per week. Here is the beauty of the league.....we get all of our money back! The $20 per week is put into one bank account and at the end we cut cheques to everyone and go to Vegas ($500). WE GET A TRIP EVERY YEAR! Essentally leagues take our money and use it to send the top team to vegas. We figured why not just take our weekly dues and put them away for ourselves.

The competition is great. We have trophies for all stats and have two singles tourney's a year. I love that we get to play up to 19 games in a night too. Some nights in APA if you lost to a 2 you could end up playing 3 games and be done for the night. I have found that skill levels have increased amazingly as players have only themselves to depend on making them work harder on their games.

Anyway, handicaps are a reality in leagues and make it fun for everyone (our 3's got to say they are National Champions too). We all just have to play our best and the system will work. If it frustrates you I suggest starting your own league as we did.

Thanks to those who read this long winded post,


Tim

[parrothead]

thanks for a great post Tim

[wobster]

I am dealing with a bunch of players in my APA league who do not sandbagging as a problem. The first place team the last 2 sessions in my 8-ball team has a 7, a 6, 2 5's, a 4, and 2 3's. Of that, there should be 2 7's, 3 6's, and 2 4's. This is almost exactly the same team that calls me a sandbagger in 9-ball. They have played 3 weeks this session and has not won a match, because after this session they are playing us in regionals for the trips to vegas. 1 handicap has already dropped.

Another guy that calls me a sandbagger has an APA team in michigan and my sister-in-law plays on it. He has told her and me both that she better not even think of winning until after the Tri-cup tournament (money tournament in Jackson) so that her and another girl will be 2's.

The way I take this is that 1.) If you are improving, you are a sandbagger and sandbagging is wrong (at least to these people I play) so don't improve, and 2.) Actual sandbagging is fine as long it helps you win money or go to vegas.

The Dr. Cue thing was not really a compliment at least in my mind, but he recovered nicely telling me nice game and asking if I had ever done that before, etc.

[pls]

You were called a sandbagger. You denied it and i believed you. Now you say I'm not a sandbagger but the 1st place team is. Is that kinda like a politician accusing a politician of playing politics?

[sonnic]

Hearing everyone go on about there leagues makes me happy that i am in mine. I play in a bar pool league with 12 Teams with 5 guys a team. No handicaping. I can see what you are saying about it might drive new players out because teams want to win. but as i said we play in a bar pool league where the atmosphere is they can just get away from the old ball and chain for a night out with the guys. Some take it more seriously then others but it all evens out. we have really good players in the league and really terrible players (or you could say "new"). We go by a players average or how often he wins and than that is compared to the team and you have a rank. I happen to be the Second rank on our team so i play the second rank player of every other team and the third plays the third and so on. And then they produce a sheet that displays all players average and table runs, eight ball breaks and so on. I love to move up that list and also take pride in being at the top. It is pretty fair overall we do have a few all star teams in the league that are all as good as our best shooter but it to me just makes those nights more interesting. There is good competition but best of all there is never anyone complaining about someone losing on purpose. I am tring to get into a apa league Just don't really know what to do...

[wobster]

PLS - I am not a sandbagger. I play my best every time I step to the table. This is my 3rd session, and I am improving. I took the 9-ball MVP last session (tough to do that while losing on purpose.)

There are sandbaggers out there, and we play against them on a regular basis. If you don't think there is sandbagging you are sadly mistaken. If I am a sandbagger, why is it that I constantly ask to be moved to a 5? They can play me as a 7 for all I care if it stops the talk of me sandbagging. I don't care if my skill level is higher, as the higher skill level will give me a boost of confidence.

On the other hand, How many 3's do you know that run the table in tournament play? I saw it a few weekends ago by the first place team. This was not a new player who was unestablished, she has been playing since I can remember. However, now that 3 is down to a 2 again....how exactly does that happen without sandbagging?

So to answer your question, no, it is an improving player calling a team of cheaters sandbaggers.

[wobster]

Oh, and one more thing, After I ran the table on Dr. Cue I asked to be moved up to a 5 right away in front of everybody and the league operator told me no.

[dags_lax]

In our area our vending company ranks players according to skill to determine the make up of leagues and classes for tournament play. The real beauty of this is that your average is not the only criteria. We have a committee that is made up of players who are not employees of the vending company that do the rankings. The top players are ranked AA, the next tier is ranked A and all the others are unranked.

Criteria for making "the list" include tournament results, league averages in relation to the difficulty of the league and a subjective impression of a players skills by the committee. This subjective aspect of the rankings makes it difficult for a player to sandbag If you shoot a fair amount of pool your skill level will be known by at least one or two members of the committee. It's not perfect. There are some players that are not on the list that should be and vice versa. The list is short, about 75 players. The committee meets in the fall before the start of leagues and again in the spring just before the big local singles and team tournaments to make any adjustments. The committee may also get together at other times to deal with any special circumstances.

At any time during the course of a season, although rare, a players ranking can be changed by the committee. This allows the leagues to deal with new players and teams that try to bring in "ringers" from out of town.

Now for our league setups. We have one open league (as many AA or A players as you want) One league that allows only two list players to shoot the match. There are two other leagues that allow only one list player and all the rest of the leagues are open with a couple that are handicapped. Handicapped leagues are considered for beginners and no list players are allowed. Any team can request to shoot in a league above their skill level. The non list leagues are subjectively ranked by the vending company. For instance on Thursday night there are three non list, non handicapped leagues. When a team signs up for a league the may be bumped up if their skills warrant it. Teams that do very well are moved up and teams that do poorly are moved down. If a team keeps running away with the league it is usually because they have a player or two that should be on the "A" list and when that happens the team will then need to replace the "A" player or move up to a list league.

The local Pool Halls, in house leagues and tournaments, for the most part, use the vending league list.

[pls]

I'm not a great player. I shoot in the C division at sanctioned tournaments. If you saw me shoot on a good day you'ld shake your head and say noway that guy is a C. If you saw me on a bad day you'ld shake your head and say there really ought to be a D division. My point is you don't like being accused, but are willing to accuse others.

[parrothead]

Listening to all this drama makes me cringe. I am suddenly understanding why pool cannot make its way into the mainstream. From what people here are saying the APA handicapping system is totally bogus. It is as much a political tool as it is a way to make things fun for everyone. The VNEA/BCA league that I shoot in ranks players by their averages, and their win records. We make you want to win because unlike the APA winning can't hurt you that bad. The maximum handicapp in our normal leagues is only 3 balls, and the masters guys have a 5 ball max. No one except for the league operators team plays below their potential. It kind of makes me sad to think of the troubles the APA is imposing on it's players, and I know that I will never play in one of their leagues if I can avoid it.

[Tanar]

The thing I would be worried about in sandbagging is losing my skill level. Who enjoys throwing a game? I sure don't. If you are constantly throwing games, how do you keep your confidence and the ability to run tables? The little skill that I have comes from trying my best all the time and practice, practice, practice. I am not a natural talent at pool and throwing games would raise hell with my skill level, not to mention my conscience. If a player beats me, they deserve it because they beat me straight out. Our team is not always the top team, but when we are on top, we enjoy it and try to demolish every team we come up against. Sometimes we're successful, sometimes we're not. Sandbagging is akin to cheating and is dishonorable.

[sonnic]

well said

[wobster]

The guy I played last night (the captain of the aforementioned sandbagging team) was missing shots on purpose, so I beat him pretty easily. Afterwards, He even TOLD me that he lost on purpose because he wanted his handicap to go down. This is one of the same guys who got angry with me because he thought I was sandbagging. This guy is the father of the league op so nothing will be done. That is why I am done with the APA after the summer session.

[skor]

you can complain to the apa with the following link:
http://www.poolplayers.com/form_handicap_complaints.html

if the league op is playing it dirty you should complain since he is hurting the sport and all the players in your league.

[audiopro]

I agree.. Even if it takes 5 minutes to officially complain, I think it is worth it. I think at least it may get the ball rolling to something being done about it..

[wobster]

There have been MANY people fill out that form and some APA observers actually came down to watch. They always said the same thing....He plays like a 4, 5, 6, etc. The observers watch one week and they don't have any idea what the players' handicaps should be.

[audiopro]

Ok, last resort.. Break his legs!!!!

[skor]

but don't use your cue, ask the barteder for the baseball bat :)

[audiopro]

My bad, thanks for catching that one Skor!

Make sure you dont use your cue!!!

[wobster]

HAHA Good call.

[dags_lax]

Our society puts far to much of a premium on winning. It doesn't matter what the game is as long as you win. The media starts beating it into our heads at a very early age. I use to umpire for little league baseball and it's a shame to see eight and ten year olds cry because they lost a big game. Those kids should have been having fun and learning the game.

Society glorifies the best. The best athletes the best actors, the biggest selling musicians, etc. Many of these people are not the sort of people you would want married to your sister yet we still buy a jersey with their number on it or a product that they are paid to endorse. When that much importance is placed on winning, something that in my opinion is not so important, is it any wonder people cheat (sandbag)?

Winning and loosing. Especially when it come to league play, who gives a sh*t. I mean really, who cares? Very few people care. Your friends and family perhaps. But others? Imagine the team that takes first in your league standing out on the street corner saying to each person that passes by, hey we won our league, we took first. You know what the people will think? I'll tell you what they will think. They'll think "So. What's the big deal!" But yet as an individual we have been conditioned that either you are a winner or your a failure. Six months from very few will remember who lost the Superbowl and fewer yet will remember where you finished in league play.

What do you get for taking first? A few extra bucks in prize money. I can't see this being important to any player. Add up all you spent throughout the course of the season and compare it to your prize check and you'll se what I mean. You also get a trophy for your mantle. That's the in your home equivalent of standing out on the street corner saying to each person that passes by, hey we won our league, we took first.

But you may say, winning brings me the respect of my pool playing peers. And earning the respect of your peers is a worthy goal. But it takes more than just winning. Your peers need to see that you always are giving your best effort, that you are willing to share what you have learned with others. It takes sportsmanship and an enjoyment of the game no matter what the outcome. It takes a respect for your opponent, regardless of his abilities. That is the kind of player that gets respect, or at least that is the kind of player that gets MY respect. In fact that is the kind of player that gets my respect even if he is on the last place team or isn't one of the top singles player.

When it come to a player sandbagging, that player, no mater how good, would never earn my respect. I also doubt that he would earn the respect of his peers either. The sandbagger just fails to have the qualities needed to earn my respect and I would hope that of my peers.

I would like to think the sandbagger would always wonder in his own heart if he really had what it takes to be a champion but I know that is not the case. More likely the sandbagger, in his desire to win, will bury this deep in his soul and never let it come out. Such is the power of the message that you are a winner or you're nothing. The sad thing about is that some where in his subconscious, the sandbagger knows that the game is not that important. That his life will not be any different tomorrow no matter whether he wins or looses. Therefore dumping a few games is not a big deal to him if it helps him become a winner.

[audiopro]

Um wow... Dags I think you need to put more thought into your posts. They seem to lack real content and deep thought... kidding.... :)

It is a good point you make though about the importance we put on winning. But I don't think it is always a bad thing to want to win. For some of us maybe it is not about respect from others, or bragging rights. But what about self improvement. Excelling at something and seeing your results. True, I used to tell my students "Never compare yourself to others, compare yourself to you." Meaning, how well did you through that kick 2 months ago. How much better do you do it NOW than you did THEN.

Wanting to improve ones self in this manner is sometimes the driving force behind wanting to win at something. Is it really all that bad to want to win. Is it wrong to want to test your skills? Be it against others at times? I think competition can be a good thing. BUT I definitely think you had better be enjoying what you're doing regardless of win or lose.

I have carried it over from martial arts right into playing pool. I LOVE this game. I love playing. Competing goes along with the love to play for me. If I lose, big whoop. If I win, big whoop. Unless I win 100,000 bucks or something I could care less. I play in a league for many reasons, winning being VERY low in the list. How about spending time with friends, having something organized to intice people to come? All I am trying to say is a lot more than wanting to win comes with competing. But I do agree, WE DEFINITELY put to much emphasis on winning.. Cause your right, 6 months later does anyone remember? Or even care?

[Tanar]

Very true. I play to improve. Anything I care about doing, I want to be the best. In that, winning can be an essential part, but I would like to think that I am one of the nicer guys in the league. I know most of the members and most do not hesitate to speak to me. I am also very much into helping the sport grow in my area and that should be a goal for any player that loves this game. As Audiopro should know, part of becoming a black belt in any form of martial art is promoting the sport and trying to generate interest as well as showing a true affinity for the sport.

As for programming winning into kids at an early age, look at hockey parents. They are the worst of the worst. They want their kids to win at any cost and many times, they are fighting with each other and members of the team, coaches, refs, etc. More than once an Assault charge has come from hockey parents going too far. My brother used to ref soccer and was almost attacked by a parent once for a call he made.

But, you can put this argument to a lot of things. Look at the way the media portrays young beautiful people nowadays. You have to be thin, muscular (for men) and good-looking to be considered desirable for most. We have young girls becoming anorexic or bulemic because they do not see themselves as desirable. The media is a powerful tool that can dictate the social norms for people. It is really something we have to try and combat within our own lives and the lives of those we love and respect.

[audiopro]

This is one thing I have loved about playing league. I have learned so much about the game. And how to play it. Before joining league I didn't know a safety or defensive shot from a hole in the ground. Now I know them, and they are a great skill to have in your arsenal.

In general I have met great people. My best friends I met through league. Through competing. Everyone helps everyone.. I shoot during off-league times with anyone and everyone on the league or not. And we all learn from each other. In many ways we have actually become better more mature people by participating in this sport. However their is always the flip side of the coin. There is no getting around it. Good vs. Evil. lol....

Such is life, we will have ups and downs. Good and bad. This is applicable to every aspect of our life. Just for the love of God people!!! TRY to have more fun then distress!!!

[DZ314]

You said it, have fun with it or what is the point? Being positive and taking the positive side of what is dealt to you through life is a very important aspect.

[dags_lax]

Audio: There is nothing wrong with the desire to win. I like to win. My teammates like to win. Winning, as general rule, is more fun than loosing. But more importantly I like to play well. On any given night I can be at the top of my game and loose. I may be playing a better player, and there are plenty out there, or I consistently have a bad laying table. If I loose when I'm playing well so be it. I am not to disappointed. I can enjoy myself when I or the team looses.

On the other hand some times I win against quality opponent on nights when I don't have my best stuff. Pool is a funny game and usually, but not always, the the best player or team wins.

After every match I analyze what happened. I get suggestions from my teammates and sometimes even from my opponents. When things are going good I try to reinforce it by replaying the table in by mind. When I make mistakes I look at what I did wrong. Did I play the table wrong, did I try a shot that I shouldn't have, or did a have a brain fart. The point being is that every week I hope to have learned something that will make me a little better player down the road.

It is this desire to play better that will lead me to more wins. Playing good is what I want to do. When I get beat more power to my opponent because he beat a fairly good player. If I wanted to win badly enough, instead of playing with the big boys, I would play in weaker leagues and tournaments. I would rather take my chances, knowing full well that I am going to get to go home early. playing in A than win in class C.

[audiopro]

I enjoy playing people who are skilled at either my level or above in order to better my game. Last night after losing my league match, I played my team captain in several games. He is a 6 I am a 4-5. And I learn more by playing him and watching how he handles certain situations than I ever could by playing a lower ranked player. At the same time though, I like playing lower ranked players also, because I can help them better their game.

In general, to a point, I think it is always better to play someone better than you. Save the fact if you play a 7, you may not get to shoot for a couple racks... lol... But typically they will play down so you can get some learning in. But playing higher level players you're pretty much forced to get better and by osmosis you learn a thing or two.

Usually anyway....

[StB]

Whatever doesn't kill ya makes ya stronger.