Neil: Z predator vs. Meucci red dot

Have you seen this? http://www.meuccicues.com/blackdot-chart.htm
Does predator have any response to this? Do they have any conflicting test results regarding the deflection of their own cues?
Meucci said they used the 314 shaft on the P2 they tested. Do you know what kind of deflection the Z shaft creates in a similar test?
Just curious. Thanks.

[Neil Fujiwara]

In our own tests, the Z-shaft performed 9% better than the 314-shaft. But the difference in feel and feedback was a lot more positive.

We did not post our test results for a couple of reasons, the main one that comes to my mind would be the fact that the tests we do, we invented.

Since there is no "ultimate" test machine that everyone agrees to measure their equipment on, test results can be argued.

Instead of bring up an arguement on what the test results say, our best test result is how many people, professionals especially, trust their game to our shafts.

I understand that completely. The only reason I bring up tests is that although in a perfect world, feel and playability should be the deciding factors in choosing a cue, you can't always get a hold of the cue you want to try out. I bought a 3K cue from seyberts because I couldn't find the one I wanted at any local dealers. And my decision was based solely on my impressions of the technology that went into predator cues and the reviews of the product on discussion boards such as these. You'd be hard pressed to find a dealer around here that would let some 'punk ass kid' (parden my french) like myself touch a predator cue, let alone knock around some balls with one. That pretty much eliminates the feel factor regarding your products.
I'm not trying to cause trouble or anything, just trying to shed some light on why I put so much stock in tests like this. That is of course, if you ignore that fact that I have an engineering degree which has programmed me to drill numbers into my brain at every opportunity :mrgreen:

[gnurf]

I´ve tried the Meucci Black Dot and the Red Dot shaft..... All I can say is DON`T BUY IT !! It´s the worst shaft I´ve ever played with. It feels like the shaft doesn´t weigh anything at all. There is absolutly no balance in those shafts what so ever.

[Neil Fujiwara]

That's odd, the black dot we tested weighed at the high end of the scale, something like 4.4 ounces.

I understand about crunching numbers, but when the numbers are in "question", with no governing body to make a decisive decision one way or another, then posting numbers might not be what you want to do.

[gnurf]

What I ment is that all it´s weight is in the bottom of the shaft.... That makes it very uncomfterble for who is use to a shaft that have a shaft that is more "heave" on the tip...

[skor]

weight on the tip couse deflection, that's why you want a shaft that is light on the tip, 314 shaft are hollow in the tip end for that reason and the z shaft has a smaller diametter for that same reason as well.
Predator were the first to notice that the tip end should be as light as posible back in the days they were searching for the ultimate shaft

[skor]

the reson I think the black dot sucks it's becuase of the flat lamination you have to shoot with the black dot facing up, thats making a shaft with a "sweet spot" on purpose. one of the things that the predator 10 pieces is so great for is that it eliminates "sweet spots" you can just pick it up and shoot

[New Kid In The Hall]

Skor,

Actually, the alignment of the laminations doesn't imply the sweetspot is parallel or perpendicular to them. I have a few black dot shafts and the dot is not always where you think it would be.

I have played with both Red and Black dots. They both perform well. I have asked for a copy of the Meucci video they say you can get to see all of their results. The chart does indicate that the 314 shaft was the next best to theirs under their testing. They only used one offset of English too...only 3/16" off center hit. I wonder if there were markedly different results as you get to a 1/2 cue tip to a full tip off-center. 3/16" is nothing.

[skor]

I think this whole race after a shaft that eliminate deflaction has gotten way out of control, on 99% of the shut it's best not to use any spin and for that 1% that you do need spin the 314 shaft is working great, that goes to Predator as well with the Z shaft, why fix something that is not broken :)

I've tried both. I suppose it's a matter of opinion. I would rather shoot with a house cue than any meucci. I hate them. They hit like twigs. The predator shaft is awesome when it comes to deflection. It deflects less, period. If 9 ball's your game and you like to load up the english, the 314 shaft is a big plus. On the other hand, I feel that the predator shaft is designed to bend and not compress....to make a long story short, I don't like the feel as well on center ball hits. For straight pool, IMO you can't beat a really stiff shaft like schon. Of course the schon has an 8-10 taper, while the predator has a much longer one which makes a difference in stiffness. The schon hit is superb, I can't imagine anything feeling better, but it deflects more. It took me a long time to decide, but I play with the 314 shaft on my schon. I'll never play with anything else. But as for Meucci's...I wouldn't even play pool if they were my only option. But it's all opinion. Some guys like them better. If you don't have enough experience to really really know what you want in a cue, then don't spend much, buy a couple of $100-200 cues and figure out what you like. After awhile, you'll know that you want xx.x oz, xx taper, this stiffness, that tip....you'll know exactly what you want. Then buy the cue you'll use for the rest of your life. It's a big investment. Buy exactly what you want, pay for the looks, and name her.

[sanj]

merry christmas.
i could not agree more.thank you.

Whether you know it or not, a big percent thinks there hitting center ball but in reality you are a half tip off.

[New Kid In The Hall]

To the guest with the discertation...it's all a feel thing. I play against enough people to know that they all prefer something different and if you put what you play best with in their hands, they don't play as well...and vice versa. The BEST thing you said was...try out cues/shafts/weights, etc. until you find what works for you. Period.

I think I have just about every kind of cue and shaft you mention because I'm a pseudo collector and like to play/try different things...the best feeling cue I have personally every played with is a Black Boar custom using 12.5mm black boar shafts with a real ivory ferrule and a talisman pro med tip. There wasn't a shot I needed that this cue didn't give you the confidence or the feel that it was well within its capabilities. Some cues make you feel like you have to really push them to a limit to execute a particular shot, not this one. That is sort of the feeling the first time I put a 314 on most of my other cues also. The 314 made every shot seem easier. Can't wait to order a couple of Z shafts.