Instroke Buffalo Cowboy

[buddha162]

I've seen 2 Buffalo Cowboys in my local poolhall, and the leather on the two looks quite different.

One is much darker than the other, and looks slightly oiled. The other is more "suedish" in texture, lighter in color, and looks drier.

Am I imagining things, or are there more than one Buffalo Cowboy Instroke out there? BTW, compare the photos of Buffalo Instrokes on Seybert's site and cuesforless.com and you'll have some idea of what I'm talking about.

Thanks,
Roger

[sanj]

yes I bought two buffalo cowboy cases from different places.
the darker oiled look case feels thicker and and i think is better quality.
i dont know why there are two distinct styles.they may be made in different places or one may be older stock.

Hello

The reason you are seeing two different styles is because the old ones (1
to 2 years old) are the more shinny ones and the new ones are like the ones
we have on our web. thanks and let me know if I can send you out one of our
cases.

Rick Matzke
Seyberts Billiard Supply
702 East Chicago Rd.
Coldwater, MI 49036
Toll free: 1-877-314-2837
(517) 279-7585
fax: (517)279-8765

Hello Rick,

Thanks for the info. Another question: How come I see two versions of the Premier case when browsing around the internet? The one you have on your website (and billiardwarehouses') have silver clasps on the main closure and the first pocket, while the other Premier has a zipper opening for the first pocket (see Hawley's).

Also, the Premier cases on your site appears blue, at least on my comp. I thought they only come in black?

Thanks again, sorry for all the questions but I ordered my custom cue and I need a 3/5 case before it gets here. Already settled on Instroke but am giving the Leather vs. Vinyl some serious thought.

Roger

[Rick]

I have never seen the ones at Hawleys, they look like an old version or might not even be an Instroke case. The Premier case are black and the picture doesn't do it justice.

[New Kid In The Hall]

So if I buy a Buffalo Cowboy case right now, am I going to get a suede type leather as opposed to a smooth, oiled look? Please clarify...I do not want suede style and I was thinking of going for a Buffalo case.

[skor]

I don't know if you know guys, but there were a few changes at Instroke management/owners.
I think that they were bought by a chineese company and the cases are no longer come from Germany and I think there is some quality difference between the new and the old cases.
The German Instroke cases are still out there but are more expensive, the german instroke are also changing their name from instroke to Stroke Sport and they are keeping the good old quality leather that you might know from older cases, they also offer the option of customizing your case and your name stiched in leather to the case

[instroke]

The lowdown:

Instroke started life through me in 1991 in Koblenz Germany. Through many partnerships and mergers it became Instroke Sports GMBH based in Ilshofen Germany. I retained the United States rights of trademark and copyright.

In 1998 I sold out my partnership to the remaining partners at Instroke GMBH in order to set up shop in the USA. I opened Instroke Sports LLC in 1999 in Colorado.

Instroke Sports USA (as we were known) purchased all of their Instroke cases from the German company under the stipulation that my production guidelines were strictly adhered to. This agreement was quickly broken and along with other issues it led to a situation where I decided to find another factory capable of producing cases to my standards.

Thus began a two year period of development of a new production of Instroke cases and a prolonged legal battle with Germany. In late 2003 we settled with Germany over the trademark issues and they must abdicate the Instroke trademark in the United States. They will also have to stop using Stroke Sports as well since it is confusingly similar, but that is another issue.

The new factory has spent over a quarter million dollars to upgrade their capability in order to produce cases which exceed my production values. A short bio is available at www.instroke.com

This brings me to the original question and the subsequent answers on this board.

The Instroke Buffalo model was originally made from vegetable tanned, oiled leather. Because the particualr type of leather is often unavailable in exactly the same tannage, color and consistency this model has often used varying types of leather. Now, the Buffalo model from the REAL Instroke in Taiwan uses the original vegetable tanned, oiled leather. It is perhaps the best that has ever been used for this model.

As to the quality of the cases overall. The Instroke case from Taiwan is the better case by far. The reason I can say this confidently is because the cases from Germany are stuck in 1998. The original factory where I developed the mass production line and taught the designers and shop workers how to build according to my guidelines no longer exists. The cases are made in the Czech Republic in a new facility with the barest remnants of knowledge from my original vision. In other words there has been NO improvement on the basic design that I left them with in 1998. There has in fact been a degradation of quality internally. You as a consumer, would not see this immediately but I did and do. Still though, the cases from the German company are better than just about all of the competition out there.

The cases from Taiwan though are the bomb. :-)) The Taiwanese have outdone themselves by producing cases that have major improvements over the ones from the Czech Republic. To start with the tubes are lighter and stronger. The lining does not hand up anymore, this problem has been eliminated. The latches are practically indestructable with the new diamond latch. The tubes are padded to protect against impact and to provide a tighter fit between the exterior and the interior of the case. The nails used on the end caps are fully barbed so that they cannot work loose. The zipper pulls on the self-healing zippers are heavy duty so that they won't break. And there are several minor things that are being done to insure a top quality case. The point is that despite the rumors and misconceptions the Taiwanese Instroke is the better case point for point and is the very best Instroke case that has ever been produced during my 13 years with Instroke.

Sincerely,

John Barton
founder, designer and former owner of Instroke Cue Cases.

[skor]

John,
thaks for your reply, from fast posts from you, I have come to learn that you are a straight person.
There a lot of cases out there that looks just like instroke and now (well the last few years:)) there are 2 cases with the same name, that have minor (yet important) different changes, how would the average guy can tell the different between the two, and make sure that he is getting what he is paying for.
I urge Instroke to an end to this asap, for the sake of the customers and Instroke reputation.

[instroke]

John,
thaks for your reply, from fast posts from you, I have come to learn that you are a straight person.
There a lot of cases out there that looks just like instroke and now (well the last few years:)) there are 2 cases with the same name, that have minor (yet important) different changes, how would the average guy can tell the different between the two, and make sure that he is getting what he is paying for.
I urge Instroke to an end to this asap, for the sake of the customers and Instroke reputation.`

I understand your frustration. I think that Instroke Cowboy model cases are the most copied case on the market right now. They are so popular that Instroke copied themselves :-)

It is rare that a corporate divorce is done nicely and easily. With the Instroke fight we were in the midst of a legal battle and in order to stop the German company from delivering the cases with the Instroke brand I would have had to put up a bond of up to a million dollars. This is done as insurance for the court in case the plaintiff, the one asking for an injunction, is found to be in the wrong so that the lost revenue can be paid. I just didn't have it and so I had to wait for the eventual victory.

Now the German company is no longer allowed to sell cases to the United States bearing the Instroke name. The amount of new cases using the Instroke name will steadily decrease throughout the year. Within a few years there won't be any new ones and the name will stop being diluted.

There are a few ways to tell the differences. The most obvious is the latch. Our cases have a rounded rectangular latch while the German one is very oval. The next glaring difference is that our cases have hidden zippers while the German ones are exposed. The logo is also a way to tell on some cases. After we filed our lawsuit the Germans changed their logo to "Instroke Original" in normal lettering as opposed to our bubble letter logo.

Other than these cosmetic differences it would take an experienced eye to tell which case comes from where.

I apologize on behalf of both Instroke companies for any confusion caused to the consumer. I tried for as long as possible to keep this dispute out of the public view in hopes of a peaceful resolution. Please be aware that all Instroke cases are being serviced by Instroke USA and we won't leave any customer hanging. If you purchased an Instroke branded case from a legitimate Instroke dealer then you are covered no matter what happens to the German company.

Stay Instroke,

John Barton

[skor]

John,
take a look at this link:
http://www.billiardstore.com/instrokeCustoms/1600210.htm

if I'm not mistaken Hawley's Billiards is in the U.S and they are selling the german cases, they also introduce the cases as CUSTOM cases

[Tanar]

Skor,
I think John was saying that it will take a year for this kind of thing to be weeded out from the American market.

[instroke]

It will take a while for the information to be corrected. Instroke will contact resellers and ask them to edit their contact as they discover it.

Meanwhile, if you buy ANY case with the name "Instroke" on it you can sure of getting the best case on the market.

I am currently using a European Instroke Saddle Series case to carry my $2000 Espiritu in. If I felt it were inadequate I wouldn't use it.

John

[New Kid In The Hall]

John,

Thanks for taking the time to put us all "in the know."

Rick,

So can I get an oil tanned, 3x7 Buffalo from TAIWAN from Seyberts?

Thanks.